Chaos theory

There are dead cats with more bounce than this government. Are you feeling strong and stable? How are those broad shoulders of the United Kingdom working out for you, the ones that are now wearing an orange sash? Are you better together with the lodge? After spending the election campaign screaming that Jeremy Corbyn was a friend of Irish political parties with links to terrorism, Theresa May is inviting an Irish political party with links to terrorism into government. The government of the UK is waiting to hear the demands of sectarian fundamentalists who used to wear balaclavas and paramilitary uniforms.

According to an Irish newspaper, the DUP has a list of 45 demands to put to Theresa May in return for supporting her government. These include, in no particular order: no surrender, making it mandatory that prayers in the House of Commons end with a commitment to FTP, abolishing gay pride marches unless the semi-nude male dancers adorn themselves in the boa their father woa, tying up all budgie swings on the Sabbath, forbidding anyone to wear the colour green, banning all references to the world being more than 6,000 years old and making it clear that humans did indeed walk with dinosaurs because after all the DUP do that every July, introducing a bill to make it clear that New Rangers is exactly the same club as Old Rangers except for tax purposes and it’s all the fault of Craig Whyte anyway, and making it clear that the David Bowie song Ashes to Ashes isn’t about Arlene Foster’s grasp of good financial management.

For all the jokes and the howls of derision, it’s not a joke that we’re now living in a country where extremist fundamentalists are being asked to prop up the government. It’s unlikely that the DUP will ask for changes to LGBTQ rights or abortion rights in the rest of the UK, but they’ll certainly insist that they continue to have a veto on those things in Northern Ireland. However by allying herself with a party which thinks it’s acceptable to remain stuck in the homophobic and sexist attitudes of the 1960s, Theresa May has once again put the needs of herself and her party before the rest of the country. She’s the woman who warned that the Tories were perceived as the nasty party, and now she’s getting into bed with the nastiest party of all.  I wonder if we’ll now have lots of articles in the Scottish Unionist press denouncing the Ulsterisation of our politics.

Theresa May wants us to believe that she’s most capable person to negotiate a deal with the EU, but she can’t even capably negotiate a deal with the DUP. Her office issued a statement claiming that a deal had already been reached before having to retract it amidst confusion and embarrassment. All that has done is to strengthen the ashen hand of Arlene Foster.

It’s bad enough that women’s rights and LGBTQ rights in Northern Ireland are going to be consigned to the deep freeze, but what’s even worse is that by allying herself with the DUP Theresa May is effectively destroying the Northern Irish Peace Process. The terms of the agreement make it very clear that the British government cannot and must not take sides in the Irish debate. By agreeing to a list of DUP demands, one of which is likely to be a commitment from Westminster to oppose an Irish reunification referendum, the British government has done just that.

A few weeks ago just before Theresa May made her ill-fated call for another general election the British economy was starting to struggle as the consequences of Brexit began to bite, inflation was starting to rise as the collapse in the value of the pound began to work its way through, and Brexit negotiations were looming. Now Brexit negotiations are almost on top of us and there’s no plan or indeed clue from the British government about how it’s going to handle the negotiations, there’s even greater uncertainty about the economy, and Theresa May is spending most of her time and energy cosying up to apologists for sectarian paramilitary groups on the one side and fending off Conservative leadership challenges on the other. There is now a very real and horrifying possibility that within a few weeks or months we could be facing the prospect of Boris Johnson as Prime Minister.

Theresa May had hoped that she’d have been returned to power with a stupendous majority allowing her to go into negotiations with the EU posing as the unchallenged leader of Britain with the great mass of the country firmly behind her. That’s not happening. Instead she’s going into negotiations as a zombie Prime Minister, politically dead but still walking. There’s already talk of another general election. This is the Prime Minister who sailed into office after the disaster of Cameron, supposedly a safe pair of hands. She’s proven as safe as a wet toddler playing with a fuse box in the middle of the M8.

Given all this uncertainty, the calls that the SNP must immediately take an independence referendum off the table are premature. Quite the reverse, it is now more vital than ever that the people of Scotland get an opportunity to vote on whatever is likely to emerge from the dust of the collapsing and chaotic British state. If anything, the biggest lesson that we’ve learned from the past few weeks is that in times of uncertainty political realities can change radically in an extremely short space of time. We’re now in a period of immense political and economic uncertainty, we have no idea what the shape of the British government will be next week, never mind in two year’s time. We have no idea what is going to happen with Brexit. We have no idea what’s going to happen with jobs or the economy.

In these uncertain circumstances it would be an act of epic self-harm for the Scottish Government to say that Scotland will not have another independence referendum for a generation. It’s not like doing so would placate the Scottish Tories anyway. It’s not like doing so would stop them banging on about their opposition to another referendum. All we know with certainty is that we have no certainty and we don’t know what’s coming down the British line. This crisis may settle down, but it may very well be immediately replaced with another. No one knows, although we do know that the British state has a propensity to lurch from one crisis to another and so far we’ve seen nothing to reassure us that the pattern has changed.

That’s why it’s more important than ever that Scotland retains the right to decide for itself what its own relationship with Europe and the rest of the UK is going to be. But in the meantime, it’s more vital than ever that the independence movement is not discouraged and is not bowed. We must not confuse a short term reverse in a period of chaos with a long term goal. We need to organise, educate, and must not allow the confusion and uncertainty of the British state to infect our movement. And we need to remember that independence will not be handed to us on a plate, we need to work for it. This chaotic election is a reminder that we have work to do. Let’s get to work.

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0 thoughts on “Chaos theory

  1. I don’t believe this is going to work

    I think we will need to have another election

    May will last 1 week into Brexit Negotiation before her remain/leave backbenchers will go on the attack, someone is going to be disappointed and I don’t believe they will stay mute

    This election was to moot them – to leave them powerless – FAIL

    The DUP laundering of money from a “Scottish” donation group to pay for adverts in the Metro newspaper in London for Leave, currently being investigated by electoral commision and really quite a scandal against fair democracy, win or loose it is fundementally important that democracy is upheld

    NI is in a really tender spot at the moment, it is completely immoral to do anything which risks the peace there

    Although as someone said SF may actually turn up at Parliament on Monday, cat amongst the pigeons

    I really doubt this can last long

      • Absolutely. Retrench, regroup and come back with a better (hopefully fool-proof) plan that will takes us forward with confidence. It pains me to have to say this but “Now is not the time”! Aaaargh!

      • yeah totally agree – right now the whole of the UK is about as stable as a 1 legged chair.

        I am quite worried about NI, this is quite irresponsible of May

        I know we lost some yes supporters, but that wasn’t because the SNP wasn’t strong enough on indy, the exact opposite in fact

        I think some in the indy movement need to remember the the yes voters aren’t all like them ie devoted to the cause, you know some of them would have been very torn right up to the vote on which way to vote yes or no, and that was the message on the door,

        voted yes for indy, won’t be voting for you this time, it’s good to actually go knock doors of your supporters to understand what they are thinking, they will and do change vote now as indy utterly smashed the my father’s father voted x my father vote x I vote x

        voters are much more fluid now as we can see

        However all is not lost…..far from it, just wait and see and watch the utter chaos unfold

        Can’t imagine the hard Tory Brexiters are too amused with Ruth’s little contribution 🙂

      • Thanks Paul, absolutely spot on.

        Some think that we paid a heavy price for refusing to rule out another Indyref, Perhaps, but it was the principled thing to do; in the best interests of Scotland but maybe not individual SNP MPs.

        A much bigger setback would have been if we had appeased the unionists by ruling out IndyRef. It might have saved a few seats (I’m not convinced) but we would now be helpless.

        How would we feel if we had 45 MPs but had ruled out IndyRef? (56 was a delicious fluke).

        I agree that now is a time for reflection.

        Despite the co-ordinated unionist attack on IndyRef we still got a majority of seats in Scotland.

        Ruling out IndyRef now would be foolish.

        I think our response should be something like:

        ‘The way Brexit is being run by the UK is like ramming an iceberg. Now is not the time (!) to burn our lifeboat to a brighter future… we may need it’.

        • I agree – but I do feel that our first Minister needs to give the impression to her critics that she has had some sober reflection – and THEN steam ahead and do what we (and she) have wanted all along!

    • “I don’t believe this is going to work.”

      Certainly no argument there in the current format with the DUP.

      Unfortunately there is always a Plan B lurking somewhere in the background.

      Readers might like to check out this link from yesterday’s Mail on Sunday…..

      …..where the only person in the British Isles who makes Michael Howard seem like he loves daylight is touting for Labour Party “moderates” to prop up a lame duck prime minister using the avoidance of catastrophic Brexit negotiations as a pretext.

      This would be a National Government in all but name. A cobbled together all Party “moderate” rabble based on an all Parliamentary Group to ensure “strong and stable” Government over the two year period of Brexit negotiations.

      This will either gain traction or it won’t. Either possibility needs consideration when formulating how to approach likely scenarios.

      Expect the usual suspects such as Benn, Umuna, Starmer, Jarvis et al as well as Cable from the Lib Dems and Ruth ‘please find me a tank to sit on’ Davidson to be in the mix if this gains any legs – but nobody from the Progressive side of the house, Corbyn, SNP, Green, PC.

      And if this Plan B does not get off the ground there will likely be a Plan C.

      But I’ll leave working out what that might be to someone else. I did my bit predicting this last week.

  2. I’ve got a really bad feeling about all this. If the SNP back off re independence they will lose even more MPs in another GE which is looming.

    For goodness sake, FIGHT BACK!!!

    • Definitely fight back – but not as a knee-jerk reaction and from a position of (perceived) weakness. We need “a cunning plan” – and we need it soon – but what we mustn’t do is react prematurely.

    • Sorry but I disagree

      we didn’t lose votes because we were not pro independence enough

      we lost them because we were pro-indyref2 – and the message from our previous yes/snp voters – now is not the time.

      you have to talk to the voters on the streets and in their homes to understand your “normal” voter – ie not us devoted ones

      remember that 70-80% of our voters are not us dedicated type 🙂

      • Have to say, I do agree with Sandra. I was involved in street stalls and a good deal of telephone canvassing in the run up to the election and on polling day, and many of the people who were identified as strong SNP supporters said they would not, or did not vote for SNP because they did not agree with having another referendum at this time.

  3. My unyielding desire is to see Scotland independent. Preferably in my lifetime! But to win over the rest of the country the SNP ( or any Independence Party) needs to put in writing what their economic plan would be for Scotland post independence. What currency would we use? Show us how the government would gather taxes (how much?) and how they’d use the revenue collected. It was all too pie in the sky last time. We need proper information if we are to convince the No’s of 2014.

      • And I would second that, the usual good post Paul, thank you.. of course you are correct- no way is the choice being removed, would be like jumping into the river(Brexit) then going ‘hang on a wee minute till ah tie ma feet thegither first..’

    • I don’t agree. That is trying to fight on the enemies turf and they will not release the information necessary to build this “business case” and can snipe and undermine continuously – as they did with IndyRef1. They focused on minutiae and allowed the core principle of self-determination to be obscured.

      In my opinion the YES movement needs a different “front” rather than the political SNP. This is for the simple reason that Independence is NOT Party Political. It is National. Therefore the drive fro Independence should be led by a non-political (or apolitical, if you like) organisation.

      In an Independent Scotland I can answer your questions like this:
      Economic plan: This will be determined by who the Electorate in Scotland vote for at a given time and place, and this economic policy will be enacted FOR Scotland, BY Scotland. It will not be governed from London. The economic plan might favour more socialist policy at any one time, or more capitalist policy at another time. That will be the choice of the Scottish electorate, who retain the right to throw out a government they don’t like.

      Currency: Scotland will have a currency. Every newly independent state in the world (approximately 150 since the end of WW2) has a currency, Scotland will be no different. The specific currency options are well known, and if the rUK don’t see the benefit of having a common currency in the immediate aftermath of Independence, then Scotland will have its own. This is really NOT a significant issue, but it was inflated into one by an anti-Independence media.

      Taxes: As with the economy, this will be determined by which government Scots chose to lead their country. Taxes will be collected in exactly the way they are now, unless there is a proposed radical change.

      Spending: That will be determined IN Scotland by a Scottish Parliament with ALL the powers of an independent state. The call for Independence is NOT so that there will only ever by one social-economic policy, but that Scots will choose who makes those decisions, and not Westminster.

      Independence is NOT about specific policies or parties, it hAD to be about the principle of who decides for Scotland; Edinburgh or London. The rest is up to the electorate.

      • Agree with your post, create a multi political group to concentrate solely on Independence, leaving the SNP to concentrate on the “day job” and not be distracted by unionist jingoism.

        • And there will be no repeat of NS in a room with Jim Murphy, Wullie Rennie, Ruth Davidson, and Gordon Brewer all having a go at her, and shouting over her answers in four part harmony.
          It remains one of the worst excesses of BBC Yoon Propaganda ever.
          She was set up during the GE by BBC and STV who reduced the whole televised campaign to an SNP Bad Farce, with loaded audiences primed to boo and jeer.
          During Indyref 2, simply refuse to attend such ‘put up jobs’, with a very public refusal.
          Now that Angus Robertson has been freed up, and with the Yes Movement’s approval, he’d be an excellent Front man, with Mike Russell riding shotgun.

  4. All the SNP need to say at the moment if goaded into a fight by the Yoons on Indy Ref 2, is to say “now is not the time” and keep their powder dry until the next general election is called.

    Then at that point they refuse to debate with the monkeys, and instead insist upon the organ grinders such as cute n cuddly Boris Johnson being brought north to drop his pearls of wisdom upon North Britain.

    Mix that in with some good auld fashioned parent Scots piss taking on Dugdale, by asking her who we should all vote for this time round, and pin the blame firmly on her for Corbyn not being able to form a minority administration.

    Then for good measure, ask Ruth Davidson again, on a loop, how she can personally console herself to working with the knuckle dragging DUP..

    In other words stop being so nice, and take the fight to these jokers on our terms!

  5. Aye, we do need to fight back, Annie’s correct; maybe without the caps though ;-p Sturgeon didn’t exude a lot of confidence and resolve on Friday. Yes she had been kicked in the teeth and was feeling down; weren’t we all, but it’s her job to stay on message and throwing out vibes during her statement about reflection only gave Unionists more ammo. Now the rumour mill is rife with “will she won’t she” withdraw from a second referendum vote. That would be a huge mistake. I think we all want to avoid hasty decisions but I also believe the majority in Scotland are waiting for more substance, more leading and more belief in an independent Scotland. We haven’t really been getting that. Now is the time!

    • Why had she been kicked in the teeth? She won! How many times do they have to win before it will be admitted?

      Ruthie has been hailed as the Queen of Scots when her party, both in England and Scotland, lost!

  6. There really is a simple solution to the Independence conundrum : the SNP say- we will take indy ref two off the table if the Scots Tory MPs guarantee that Scotland can get a separate deal with the EU. May can’t do anything with their backing; they have the mandate and responsibility to do this with the Brexit result in Scotland and the DUP from what I have read have asked for a soft border with Ireland so variations are possible. Let’s not get bogged down in Tory traps.m

  7. On 4th June, Theresa May said, “there is – to be frank – far too much tolerance of extremism in our country.” So, it’s just as well that her Government will soon include such open-minded, humanitarian, inclusive, liberal people as the DUP members. That should be a real setback to the fundamentalist religious nutters who want to destroy our “British” way of life.

  8. If Corbyn ever gets a try at Downing Street, then I hope the SNP bargain for control of the BBC Scotland to go to the Scottish Government, in return for their support.

  9. The blue tories will be stuck between the rock of knowing the longer they postpone another general election the worse the result it likely to be for them and the hard place of knowing the sooner they initiate another general election the worse the result is likely to be for them. However, that is only one of many pachyderms lurking behind the curtains. Consider:

    :-Continuation of internal feuding within the Labour Party where the Blairite wing is not reconciled to the success of Labour adopting the SNP’s socialist policies;

    :-Feuding within the Conservative and Unionist Negotiating Team about what Brexit Means Brexit actually means – hard, soft, sunny side up, half baked…;

    :-An agreement with the Democratic Unionist Party which is going to end in tears – breaches the Good Friday Agreement, postpones the re-running of Stormont elections (direct rule?), irritates other stakeholders (as the current jargon goes) and provokes a hostile response;

    :-Tory back benchers from Europhiles to Europhobes will be jockeying for influence which no amount of whipping will control – indeed may exacerbate;

    The longer the Maybot continues as PM the greater will be the decline in fortunes of the conservatives – the media will longer take her seriously, the fall is inevitable. The blue tories will realise this but only a dafty or masochist (including those that enjoy a good whipping) would want to take on the role just now – better she takes the flak for whatever disasters ensue. However, this cannot go on for very long and there will be another UK general election before too long.

    In that election the blue tories will be trying to defend the indefensible and there is the real potential for many newly blue seats turning back to yellow. In that election many red tories will be trying to pretend they are not really blue tories which they never promoted – honest, but the MSM will overlook that because this new exciting socialism stuff is so much fun, for now.

    And independence? It has not gone away; it never did, despite what the blue tories may try to get you to believe. The SNP is the government in Scotland and that government has the agreement of the Scottish Parliament that there will be another referendum. Incidentally, it also has a majority of Scottish MPs. This Indyref2 hare stated running because of the potential that Scotland would be dragged out of the EU against its will. While that potential remains, Scotland reserves the right to consider its future.

    • Well said – and that last is what I have been telling all the gloating BritNats in the other comment threads which I frequent. WE won the vote in Scotland and WE still have a mandate for another Referendum as long as there is the potential that we will be dragged, kicking and screaming, out of the EU. End of.

    • As pointed out further up Mandelson is out touting for the Blair wing of the Labour Party to prop up May in order to avoid a catastrophic Brexit negotiations.

      See yesterday’s Mail on Sunday.

      It is not just the fact that Mandelson is touting this it is also the fact that the Mail is pushing it.

      Should this gain traction it changes the whole dynamic. There will certainly not be another early election to look forward to. There will be at least two to three years of negotiation while they spin things out propping up what will in effect be a National Government. I could even see this going a full five year term with the Labour ‘moderates’ propping up the Government in what they will claim is “The National Interest.”

      The reactionary ‘s are looking to hold the line. Something they were always going attempt. Progressive civic minded groups on all sides of the geographic and political spectrum may well have to consider firmer common ground to counter this.

      • As this piece is from the Daily Fail, may I suggest we handle it with due caution, i.e. at arms length, wearing surgical gloves and using sterilised tongs? That said, I would put NOTHING past Mandy who is a complete disgrace to the party he purports to belong to and to politics in general!

        • Agreed on both counts.

          The concern has to be that People like Mandelson operating at that level do not just float an idea like that in rag like the Mail and then move on.

          You can bank on the fact that Mandy has been and is working behind the scenes to pull strings, persuade, bully and chivvy MP’S from that section of the PLP to go down that route or something similar.

    • Oh, my aching sides! BoJo for PM? I haven’t laughed as much since Labour took Kensington on Thursday night! They can swap the robot for a buffoon … but they cannot, in all fairness, expect the general public to take him – or them – seriously if they do!

  10. If you look at the numbers, then the Tories + DUP is basically the only realistic grouping that gets over the threshold necessary to pass a Queen’s Speech and a budget. Neither the SNP or the LibDems are going to entertain any kind of deal, the idea of a “Grand Coalition” between the Tories and Labour is laughable non-starter[1] and Labour + “plus everyone who isn’t a Tory, *including the DUP*” has all the faults of a Tory + DUP deal and some extra ones on top!

    As to how long said deal can last, well IMHO it depends upon how smart the DUP are in what they demand. Some of what was in their manifesto or are likely demands are easy enough for the Tories to swallow :-

    * They wanted a review of the ferry services between NI and GB. Easy enough, it’ll take months to report, won’t necessarily report any real changes are needed and even if it does you can always ignore it. Sorry, I mean “temporarily delay implementation of the reports recommendations until the proper preconditions have been met and the political & economic climates are right”!
    * They’ll probably want an increase in funding for NI. Given the relative scale of things, any increase in the budget for NI isn’t going to be a significant overall increase in UK government expenditure nor does it (AIUI) trigger Barnett Consequentials meaning an increase in funding for Wales and/or Scotland. This increase could be linked to only becoming available when/if a reformed power-sharing administration is installed in Stormont, thus putting pressure on both Sinn Fein and the DUP to agree to “something”.
    * Whilst the DUP are pro-Brexit they also want a “frictionless border” with the Republic. Taking the so-called Norway Option (i.e. EFTA/EAA membership) works for that, would probably scrape through the Commons and would also simplify the negotiations with the EU (so might seem like a good idea to May at this point too!).

    Personally I give the arrangement 6-18 months before it breaks (this assumes that any by-elections don’t result in the loss of Tory or DUP MPs), but if it lasts through to the end of that range then the Brexit negotiations should be mostly wrapped up. Of course somewhere in here at least some of the Tories probably want a leadership contest, and that’s hard to timetable!

    [1] Though given the slow motion car crash nature of events, I suppose one could credibly argue that a “government of national unity” is precisely what the UK needs? 😀

  11. It really does have train wreck written all over it Paul.

    Not long now I’d reckon.

    On another tack and maybe worth a thought.

    Be aware that the opposition, having failed to break the Scottish government’s mandate at two times of asking this year, will now attempt to divide and break the YES movement.

    The narrative will be of division in the ranks. What doesn’t exist, they will invent or foment. Since they can’t kick in half the doors in the country and there is no organised institution or party for them them to assault through usual channels, they will attempt to reach the YES movement where they can be found in greatest numbers.

    Sites like this.

    Focus on what unites us, not what divides us. Self determination. A parliament and government that answers to the needs and aspirations of the Scottish electorate.

    A simple principle, but one we all have in common.

  12. It’s monstrously laughable and insanely true.

    In the words of “Rev D Wayne Love” “…just sit on back and relax and dig your heels in, cause we’re gonna be in for a bumpy ride fellas…”

    All the more important for the YES movement to be prepared. We’re far better than the depth of animosity they treat us with.

    I would even suggest that we’re ‘strong and stable’, cool, calm and collected, honest too.

    Let’s just watch them for a wee while…
    A plan will be formulating in the Scottish HQ.

  13. It was good to hear this week that Scottish Independence Convention are well ahead with their plans on how the Yes campaign for the Indyref2 should be formulated. These will be presented to the S.N.P in due course, and hopefully will find favour with our Government.
    What the unionists seem to forget is that while the S.N.P are a very important part of our quest for independence, they are not, and never will be, the complete solution.
    During the last campaign, I was out canvassing with many different people, from disparate political parties, and none, and I look forward to renewing these friendships in the coming months and years ahead.

  14. I have to say, as an ex-IT person, I read FTP as File Transfer Protocol.

    “the boa their father woa”

    Didn’t St Patrick get rid of all the boas?

    Still, I’m looking forward to the new TV series in the autumn, Strictly No Dancing and Sash in the Attic.

  15. Well said, Macart.

    We have Indyref2 in the bank, to be deployed when we see fit..

    As far as Brexit is concerned, let the chips fall where they may (B. Ferry).

    I never thought I would see this new low in UK politics but I see it essentially as a chaotic End of Days.

    Cool heads are required while we wait to play our game.

  16. We should have Robin McAlpine go to work as the main spokesman for our independence as he is so full of raw energy. I would like to see him go head to head with Ruth Davison, in fact, i could actually feel sorry for her if we set Robin on her.

  17. When I’m Supreme ruler of the Universe it will be death by the most painful and appropriate method I come up with at the time for anybody using the phrase, ” Dead Cat anything”.

    [Removed for being too sweary]

  18. There is a view that basically nothing has changed.
    If Corbyn had triumphed there would still be Brexit, and as we know our EU neighbours have ruled out any cherry picking by HMG, no matter the colour of their cloak.

    So no freedom of movement and employment, no free market, the xenophobic racist bedrock of Farage and Nutall, rules out any Deal that would not be the worst deal for the UK and by association Scotland.

    In Scotland we have 180,000 EU nationals working, contributing, and settled here in Scotland. Come April 2019, or September 2019 if the UK Government can broker an extension, they will be on a Notice to Quit, if the few cases that have come to light even before Brexit negotiations have even started are anything to go by.

    We stick to our timetable, on the basis that Leaving the EU against the will of the Scottish people is a material change which requires approval or rejection by the Scottish people, when it is clear what terms the UK delegation have ‘negotiated’, a plebiscite by means of an Independence Referendum if the Deal is No Deal or a Right Wing London centric Hard Deal.

    That this is to OUR timetable, while we are still a EU member, and EU citizens still have the right to vote in the Referendum, and 16-17 year olds will also be eligible, goes without saying.

    The Scottish government has a mandate, and despite Davidson putting it about that she won the GE Up Here, she in fact came a disastrous second, ‘way behind the Pro Independence Party. Hers was a spectacular failure, matched only by her Hive Mother Big T Down there.

    Perhaps she too believes that Jonah lived in a whale, and Daniel emerged unscathed from a den of Lions.

    We need only stick to the programme, Davidson, May, Johnson, and now Sister Arlene will do most of the damage themselves.

    • Brilliant – as always, Jack. And I agree with you wholeheartedly, we should stick to our game plan because that which MADE it our game plan has not changed. I still do believe that our First Minister needs to make it SEEM that she has had a period of sober reflection, if only to prevent the kind of hissing and booing which would emanate from the usual suspects if she did not give that appearance. “I have had a good think and, guess what? We go forward as planned!”

    • Thank you Jack. You and Paul have the ability to raise my spirits back up every time I start to despair and feel down. Saor Alba Gu Brath!

  19. Any truth in the rumour that because Davidson and ‘Ruth Davidson’s candidates’ have broken away from the UK Blue Tory Party, that Ian Paisley Jnr. is about to be appointed SoS for Scotland?
    I know I shouldn’t joke about things like this.
    Last year I joked about Boris being PM following a Leave vote….tick tock.

  20. I was feeling a little despondent after The outcome of the GE and was slightly worried listening to Nicola Sturgeon on Friday but Paul and all of your comments have made me realise that we will be victorious in the end. Why would anyone want to place a vote for Labour or the Tories in Scotland. You can clearly tell listening to them that Ms. Dugdale and Ms. Davidson are both completely disingenuous.

    • It should be noted that SLab are NOT the same thing as Labour. In fact, SLab and many of their voters actively prevented Mr Corbyn gaining a working majority. They went to great lengths to thwart Mr Corbyn. Only those Slabs who voted Labour maintained their integrity.

      • Hear! Hear! SLab are, in general, a disgrace and a – pale shadow of what is offered to rUK by Jeremy Corbyn. I believe him to be a decent man and … whisper it … a true Socialist! The same cannot be said for Dugdale and her tawdry little bunch!

  21. I see no change in Scotlands circumstances. We still have a Tory government ready to implement a hard Brexit and they will, even if it’s a government proped up by the hellish DUP. The MSM and Tory government will have normalised all this mayhem by end of next week and the torys will carry on regardless. The establishment are good at carrying on as if nothing happened.

    I hate hearing all this negative talk about the snp and independence. The snp have, beyond any doubt, won every election convincingly since indyref in 2014. The 2016 Scottish government elections were massively won on the mandate to hold another referendum if there was a material change. This subsequently happened and our government backed the legislation to ask for another indyref.

    This momentum should not be holted. There is no reason to holt it in any way. In fact if anything the chaos of the uk government should be of immense concern to Scotland as they prove to be unstable and untrustworthy. An immediate statement from our First Minister should be forthcoming to that effect. The snp have nothing to loose and all to gain by showing their strength in giving the Scottish people a say in their future and getting rid of this corrupt inept uk system once and for all.

    They have to find the fighting talk to combat the MSM and the overwhelming negativity being fed to us all about another referendum. We have earned indyref2, we have the numbers and legislation to prove this and we should be dedicated in our ability to make it happen within the 18-24 month time frame. We will never get a better time than now. People are being persecuted and they hart under a Tory government planning on being in power for 5 years.

    Finally, as said, nothing has changed because of the election and before it our section30 was entrenched in ‘Now is not the time’ garbage. I want to know what strong plans we have to combat this utter democratic failure.

    Afterall that’s where we were when May decided to call her disassterous election. Let’s get on with this…we have the mandate, the MP’s, MSP’s and MSP’s that outnumber all other Scottish parties put together and a huge army of willing and able supporters, we should and must have our snp government behind us too.

    • and the Lord said, ‘let there be light.’ and there was light, Lizzie 55.
      We all share your impatience, and quiet rage as the MSM, and the BBC PQ Unionist stockade attempt to rub our faces in it. Well, in the timescale of 18 months to two years the momentum for Self Determination will gather pace once more.
      I have already made a contract with myself to boycott businesses who advertise in Unionist Propaganda Dead Tree Scrolls.
      Since September 2014, I have not set foot in a Tesco, Asda, or Barrhead Travel, who will get a ton of bookings for the Last Helicopter out of Edinburgh when we achieve our Ultimate goal, Independence, and the threatened Exodus (I’ve suddenly gone all biblical. I wonder why?) of reportedly 700,000 English Born settlers, Standard Life, RBS, and Davidson, Dugdale, and Rennie flee South back into the arms of Mother England.
      There is Lux in Tenebris, Lizzie55.
      Many were cauld, but few were frozen. We will not be put into cryogenic hibernation.

  22. Of course Nicola Sturgeon should stick with her plan foe a referendum on independence.I agree with Sheila Becks earlier contribution that there is a need to deal with the economic plan.There is also a need to point out to those people who voted to leave the EU that the issue is about whether Scotland can make its own decisions,not necessarily about being pro EU.

    • William, there are 40 Tory MP’s aged between 60 and 69, and 50 Labour.
      There are 8 Tory and 16 Labour MPs still doddering about WM in the over seventies bracket.
      The fanciful notion that a lame duck Blue Tory Party, headed by a political failure and propped up by 10 Christian Fundamentalist sectarian Ultra Right Wing zealots from the Dark Ages with Northern Ireland baggage, can survive for five weeks, never mind five years, is simply ludicrous.
      They are one heart attack, a sex scandal, and an expenses fiddle away from losing any wobbly coalition they attempt over the next few days/weeks.
      Perhaps you are a medical man, and know the odds of mortality rates among the 60-75 age group over the next five years….
      There is no ‘stability’ in May’s Government now.
      We’ll be back at the Polling station in October.
      Even if you are not a medical man, and earned your Doctorate /PHD furthering world knowledge on the mating rituals of the three toed sloth, I’m confident that you would caution some of our more senior MPs against getting ’round to reading War and Peace at this time of their life.

      • I have also been looking at age groups of MP’s and the manifesto of the DUP. I noted that the DUP did not mention their military wing either.

        Anyway I agree a HE before spring possible before. How the EU Brexit talks will survive no idea. We need an agreement by Autumn 18 how can that happen.

        Heard two MP’s on TV this morning talking about trade talks. Have they been on holiday to Mars? They cannot start until after we leave. EU say they will give UK 3 years after March 19 to talk trade but we must keep full EU laws for this.

  23. That election was a misguided howler of a decision from May and it cost EVERYONE. How and ever, if anyone could be said to have been marked a clear ‘winner’ coming out the other side, it would be the SNP with control of two thirds of the seats on offer in Scotland.

    Three ballots in two years. Three ballots, three differing sets of electoral criteria and the SNP clear winners in all of them regardless of what the media attempt to sell the electorate. Mistakes yes. Bruised and battered, absolutely. Broken… NO.

    The media and political establishment flooded Scotland with cash, and effort, to still come in a poor second. Dear God, the leafleting costs and rebranding of the Ruth Davidson party alone must have cost a fortune. That the parties colluded in tactical voting to get as far as they did, not only undermined political practice and democracy in Scotland, but it hasn’t exactly covered them in any glory to boot. Percentages have been shuffled between them, but only to go no farther than they were the day before the election near as I can tell.

    All Ms May has succeeded in doing is highlight, more than ever, the fracturing of the fabric of society to any who care to see.

    The UK is headed to a constitutional and economic crisis point created entirely by its own political system and practice. Westminster WILL BE Westminster.

    The SNP I’d reckon will use this period for a time out and let events follow their natural course. IMO all they should be doing is preparing for the inevitable car crash of the Brexit negotiations, the collapse of Ms May’s government and the protection of Scotland’s interests. They’ve got through three exceptionally tough challenges which have been driven by Westminster government and events. They are still the legislature with the best public mandate in the UK by some considerable margin and so far as the larger and wider YES movement should be concerned, they are still in place as the gatekeepers of our right to choose.

    The SNP cannot win and cannot be expected to win independence for Scotland’s electorate. They never could. ALL they can do is hold the door open and make sure no one else closes it.

    Independence, self determination, freedom to choose, isn’t conditional. It’s a principle.

    You don’t suddenly wake up and say ‘Well I’ll support independence, but only if…’. Nor is anyone going to give it to you on a plate. Most certainly NOT those who benefit from your dependence. If you want a government that answers to you and your needs, it’s not incumbent on one single party to constantly be charged with delivering it to you and it’s not their failure alone if they can’t.

    We have to want it and we have to demand it of all parties.

    It’s about time to get the YES band back together in earnest. Let’s not forget what’s been thrown at us over the past two and a half years. Remember it and use it.

    • Rousing stuff, Paul.
      I mention the ‘forgotten 180,000’, that being the incredible number of EU citizens who have honoured us with their presence, expertise, and tax revenue by working here, settling here, and bringing up their families here.
      I doubt whether many of them will vote No next time.
      Likewise, there is a whole new ‘generation’ of 16 – 17 year olds who will be eligible to vote. Since 75% of young people voted Remain, and favour Scottish Self Determination, then the Future is Bright, the Future is Freedom surely?
      I observed earlier that 40 Tory MPs and 50 Labour MPs are in the age range 60-69, and 8 Tories and 16 Labour are hobbling around in the over seventies Glee Club Down There.
      With an alliance from Hades with the DUP, May is just one heart attack, a sex scandal, and an expenses fiddle away from losing her weak and unstable Government majority.
      She’s been hauled before the 1922 Committee at teatime.
      Zac Goldsmith for PM anyone?

        • Apparently being an utter failure as a Unionist politician is not a problem to going on to greater things.
          Baroness Goldie, Lord McConnell, Lord Purvis, Sir Danny alexander, Lord Ming the Mighty, Lord Darling, Anas Sarwar MSP, Murdo The Queen’s Eleven Fraser, Professor WATP Two Jobs Adam Tomkins (Those two will be right in there with their new DUP allies), Kezia Dugdale, and so on.
          In the normal world, success breeds success: in the corrupt little world of Unionist Jobs For the Boys and Girls, abject failure breeds a seat in First Class on the Gravy Train.
          It is apparent that as long as you hate the SNP, and SNP Dad mouth every chance you get, there will always be a Dead Tree Scroll willing to pay you to write bile and lies, always a steady stream of Appearance Money on BBC and STV to rubbish Independence.
          The Judas loot. Lie about your country, bad mouth its people, sell your soul for English moolah, and you are assured riches and honours beyond the dreams of avarice from the London Establishment.
          Come Independence, will Lords Reid, Foulkes, and Robertson be chucked out of the HoL, and have to make a living like the rest of us?
          It must have come as a great shock to Mags Curran and Douglas Alexander that they had to start paying for their own groceries and toilet paper.
          It is one of my greatest deferred pleasures, anticipating that moment of rejoicing when Scotland tells this bunch of failures to eff off and earn a living in the real world.

  24. @Sandra (yesterday at 4.19pm)

    “we didn’t lose votes because we were not pro independence enough

    we lost them because we were pro-indyref2 – and the message from our previous yes/snp voters – now is not the time.”

    I agree with you Sandra. The SNP never said they were going to have another referendum at this time. The FM said that once we see how Brexit begins to pan out and then knew what we would be facing, then we would make the decision. This was played down by deflection from the utterly unscrupulous, dishonest and hypocritical media. However, the equally dishonest, unscrupulous and hypocritical yoon parties talked up the referendum idea.

    It is more important to concentrate at the moment on what independence would look like in comparison to brexit and develop this. The time for a referendum will inevitably come and once we see the absolute shit that is coming, it will become more and more appealing compared to a bigoted and brexiteer Britain.

    I would urge everyone who contributes to this site to watch the latest John Oliver programme on Channel 4 (This Week Tonight), which talks as usual about Trump, but also covers the unbelievably unprofessional British GE. There is some great and punchy dialogue as well as a look at the most stupid thing May said she had ever done, with an comment about ‘Thatcher in the Rye’ – brilliant stuff. Also, there is a reference to Lord Bucket Head as well as a video of the said Lord speaking at a dinner, where a smiling Corbyn sits nearby. Excellent viewing. Oliver presents just how bad this election was. Very worth a watch.

  25. “She’s been banging away with the narrative that she won the election in Scotland by virtue of coming a very poor second.”

    This is what failures do.
    It’s like when you ask someone if they can play the piano / guitar etc etc.
    They say “yes” and when you hear them play you think “Oh f..k no you can’t”.
    Whereas, someone who really can play would have answered “Not really” and when you hear them play you think “Oh my God, how good is that”.

    Davidson is a FAILURE and says that she can do things when she CANNOT.
    She is an utterly contemptible creature who barely knows what truth means.

    She didn’t win anything and has to create a delusion to deflect from the fact that she is a FAILURE.
    Nuff said.

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