Nasty nasty

The past week has been a bit confusing. Isn’t it independence supporters who are supposed to be the nasty ones? That’s what the British press and political class keeps on telling us so surely it must be true. I’m a case in point. I’m certainly no saint. I can be exceedingly rude, especially about Wullie Rennie, and let’s be fair, in the cosmic scheme of things he’s relatively harmless. He’s not wreaked a fraction of the damage on this country that Boris Johnson has.

There are however limits to the nastiness. I specialise in rudeness, in cutting remarks, and invective, but I never ever drag the families and life partners of the targets of my ire into the proceedings. I can be extremely sweary, but never use words that are demeaning to women like the c-word. My stock in trade is hyperbole, but I’d never dream of accusing an opponent who was well within the mainstream of politics of fascism, ethnic cleansing and a propensity to genocide. And I certainly don’t let a woman do all the work and then pop up with my big butch Y chromosome a few days later and not only take all the credit, but actually blame the woman for being responsible for the problem in the first place. Over the past few days British journalists and politicians have done all of these things. So who’s the real nasty one?

First a wee bit of background. Workers at the engineering company Burntisland Fabrications in Methil were concerned about the future of their plant and jobs after management announced that administrators were going to be called in. The workers called on Scottish government ministers to intervene and to save their jobs. And that’s exactly what the Scottish government did. Following two days of intensive negotiations involving company management, the administrators, the GMB union and the Scottish government, a deal was struck to save the jobs. The GMB union tweeted its thanks to the Scottish goverment for stepping in and helping to achieve a deal.

That’s not how former GMB organiser Richard Leonard Who? saw it. Within hours of being elected as the new interim leader of the Labour branch office in Scotland, the list MSP who’s been in office for just over a year Richard Leonard Who? had first of all threatened to purge his female predecessor, and then he went off for a photie opportunity with workers in Methil and tweeted – “I’m currently in Methil standing alongside the BiFab workers. Their courage and determination this week led by their trade unions GMB and Unite, has secured an important victory. This is the Labour movement at its best.” Richard Who? was starting off with threats of a purge of the other faction in his fractured branch office – so way to go to heal Labour in Scotland’s internal divisions there Richard Who? – and then very clearly trying to claim the credit for the work that the Scottish government had done in saving the workers’ jobs. Meet the new Labour boss, same as the old one. And the one before that, and the one before that.

Richard Who?’s tweet prompted all sorts of Labour supporters, mostly south of the Border who knew bugger all about the situation, to claim that this victory in Methil was precisely why Scotland needs to vote Labour again. Which was of course the exact response that Richard Who? had been looking for. Can’t be letting that SNP take any credit for anything now can we. It’s only responsible for things going wrong, never for things going well.

Richard Who? has since tweeted a photo op with himself and the leaders of the Allies at Versailles, a pic of himself alongside Martin Luther King when the US Supreme Court ruled that segregation was illegal, and a photie of himself alongside Marsha P. Johnson storming the police lines during the Stonewall riots.

It was entirely expected, justified even, that Labour figures were going to claim that Kezia Dugdale was petty minded and vindictive for announcing her decision to go on I’m a Celebrity just hours before the results of a leadership contest which was only necessary because she chose to resign due nasty and bile filled infighting. However the nastiness and bile that prompted her resignation in the first place was on full display in some of the responses. Paul Sinclair, former special advisor for Labour in Scotland, wrote a piece about Kezia for the Labour party in Scotland’s favourite organ, that bastion of socialism that is the Daily Mail’s Sunday edition the Mail on Sunday. It was the journalistic equivalent of chewing on a wasp that had been hybridised with a soor lemon dipped in vinegar. What put it beyond the pale was that he dragged Kezia’s relationships with her previous partner and with her current partner, SNP MSP Jenny Gilruth, into his invective. That was totally uncalled for and extremely nasty. The only thing that was proven here was that Paul Sinclair’s article was even more petty minded and vindictive than anything Kezia has done. But he’s done us a favour. It helps us to understand why she did it.

It wasn’t just Labour supporters who reacted to the news that Richard Who? had been elected. Tory MP Adam Tomkins tweeted, “So … someone born in England can be elected leader of a Scottish party. Interesting.” Clearly English born Adam is wondering about his own chances of becoming the leader of the Tories in Scotland after Ruth has buggered off to seek a safe Westminster seat somewhere in Toryshire.  And if he ever does you can bet that the Scottish Unionist media won’t be pressing him too closely on how a former Republican supporter of the pro-independence Scottish Socialists ended up as a red white and blue bedecked Conservative defender of the status quo who loves Iain Duncan Smith’s ideas on social security.

Actually, Labour in Scotland isn’t a Scottish party. It’s the accounting unit in Scotland of a UK party, but that’s a minor point. Adam should have known that deputy leader and former leader of the SNP group in the Commons Angus Robertson was born in that hotbed of Scottish separatism that is Wimbledon. Robert Cunninghame Graham, founder of both the Scottish Labour Party when it really was a Scottish Labour party, and founder of the SNP, was also born in London, his first language was his mother’s native Spanish, and he was educated at an expensive English public school. Scottish politics, Scottish people, and particularly the Scottish independence movement, have never bothered themselves with trivialities about where a person came from.

Sadly that didn’t stop former Guardian journalist Michael White, he of the silly moustache, tweeting in reply, “Not all Scots are committed to ethnic cleansing, the majority still favour the Union and tolerate the English – we like them too.” I’m sure this was just banter. Just a wee joke. But I am also sure you can imagine the shitstorm of protest and outrage that would have befallen us all if a prominent independence supporter had tweeted a jokey remark about English people ethnically cleansing the Scots. It’s fine for Michael to portray us as racists though.

We don’t merely tolerate the English. A lot of us in the indy movement are English, or have English partners or English family. My own daughters are English. However what we are increasingly less likely to tolerate are slurs like those of Michael which trade on the old English stereotype that there is no content to a Scottish identity except an atavistic hatred of the English.  British journalism is full of people who are only able to understand the movement for Scottish independence in the laziest of terms.  It’s not good enough from those who claim that they’re the media professionals and who then complain when the public loses trust in them.

There are plenty of nutjob apologists for British nationalism in Scotland as it is. There are people who will scream that claiming that Scots and Gaelic are equally national languages of this country along with English is tantamount to incitement to genocide. There are actual and real fascists who support the Union and who have already proven that they will resort to violence – we remember who was responsible for the attacks in George Square after the referendum even if Michael doesn’t. Michael’s asinine tweet empowers and gives justification to those loons.

And last and definitely least, there’s the supposedly reasonable Unionist commentator Alex Massie. He’s very unhappy about Alex Salmond presenting a chat show on Russia Today, so unhappy that he called him a c–t. The c-word is to women as the n-word is to black people Alex M, that’s why grown ups don’t use it with reference to political opponents. And just like Michael’s slur about ethnic cleansing, can you imagine the crap in the media if a prominent independence supporter had called a Unionist politician by that word? British nationalist double standards strike again.

Alex Salmond was defeated in the general election by a Tory no-mark, how very dare he not go away and crawl under a rock. Well get this – we’re not going away. We’re not crawling under any rocks. We’re not going to be deterred by the increasingly unhinged hysteria from apologists for the British state and British nationalism. They’re only destroying their own credibility with their petty minded nastiness, and their increasing nastiness is a sign that they know the days of the British state are ending. The UK won’t die with a bang, or with a whimper, it will die with swear words, insults, and petty mindedness. It’s not just the Tories who are the nasty party.

The Wee Ginger Dug has got a new domain name, thanks to Indy Poster Boy, Colin Dunn @Zarkwan. You can now access this blog simply by typing into the address bar of your browser, the old address continues to function, the new one redirects to the blog. The advantage of the new address is that it’s a lot easier to remember if you want to include a link to the blog in leaflets, posters, or simply to tell a friend about it. Many thanks to Colin.

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0 thoughts on “Nasty nasty

  1. I’ll admit to throwing more than my share of ‘C’ words at the enemy (although I’ve never used it against women as a matter of principle). OK, it’s not big and it’s not clever, I’ll admit that,but if that shower had behaved like grown-ups since the early days of this debate and conducted themselves with decency and dignity towards their opponents, people like me wouldn’t feel the rage and frustration that drives us to use the kind of intemperate invective towards them. I feel no obligation or inclination to address or engage with them in any kind of civil tone any more.
    They have only their own behaviour to blame for the poisonous atmosphere that substitutes for dialogue in today’s Scottish politics.

  2. Pingback: Nasty nasty | speymouth

  3. Excellent and most accurate post Paul.

    I am enjoying the MSM and their Hacks complete frustration and anguish. Alex Salmond is going to irritate annoy and burrow deep into their Psyche and for once they cant touch him , I bet you Mr Salmond is sitting back laughing his ar-e off , goan yersel Alex . That’s what I say anyway.

    Ps maybe Kezia will tell a few home truths re the Branch Office,

    Gidday Folks.

  4. Almost makes you feel sorry for Kezia – I think she got out just in time – these nasty bastards would have made her life a misery for daring to even to give the time of day to an SNP MSP never mind falling in love with one!

    Good luck to them both.

    Hopefully Kezia’s had her eyes opened and announces her conversion to the cause on live TV!

    Or at least publically dishes the dirt to that nasty little apparatchik Leonard (Who?) and his smug conman boss Corbyn.

  5. I shall use your description of the ‘interim’ branch caretaker with particular delight as Richard Too Whit to whoo is my name for the barn owl which frequents our garden!

    Scottish Labour just keep on giving don’t they?

  6. Just when you think they have maxed the ‘WTF-ometer’ out, they manage to get it another notch up. How long can they keep it up? Like already mentioned here, when they even drag Kez’s personal life into their spiteful theatricals, it betrays the utter moral vacuum that now exists at the heart of SLAB.
    The basement is clearly not the limit, especially when the new leader takes credit for something that occurred before he took watch! Staggering, but far from surprising now.

    • The Labour party just can’t help it. They have been lying to the people of Scotland for at least six decades, and they are not going to stop now. The Labour Mafia have always felt that it was their right to rule Scotland, hence the proliferation of crooks, liars and charlatans in their party. They have not changed, they still lust after power, regardless of the effect on the Scottish people. Keir Hardie must be birlin in his grave.

      • Just over 17,000, the crowd gate at the Hearts Partick Thistle gemme yesterday, voted in the Red Tory Branch Office leadership bun fight, yet, they dominate out MSM, an incidental little People’s Left Wing Republic of Judea conclave of a Party, in anybody’s eyes.
        They have gone as a Big Beast. They rank with Rennie’s gentlemen farmers, Edinburgh fops, and retired old Colonel Blimps.
        It is reported that the Red Blue and Yellow Tories’ Austerity policies have been responsible for 120,000 deaths.
        Yet Michael White and Eck Massie, privileged son of a privileged father that he is, accuse us of promoting ethnic cleansing.
        What eerie arrogant little men that they are.
        Enjoy your blood stained wages, me lads.
        Enjoy your decades of exile from the world when your Mad Men trigger Brexit.
        Scotland isn’t going with you, nor are its 400,000 English born New Scots citizens who have shown great good sense, and honoured us by moving here and contributing to our economy, bringing up their children, and continuing the links that will bind us to our nearest neighbour after Independence.
        There but for the grace, and all that.

  7. That was a cracker, Paul.

    It was the usual industrial-scale hypocrisy from Leonard on Burntisland Fabricators. From before I was born Labour have been sacrificing Scottish jobs whenever London Labour have deemed it necessary. We all remember it and they hope we forget it. The SG immediately stepped in and saved the yard: what a contrast. No mess, no fuss. What we could do with full controls of all the economic levers?

    Trickie Dickie should go back to his failed Carry On tribute act as a Kenneth Williams reject. At least Kenneth, conflicted and unhappy as he was, could raise a laugh occasionally and was harmless, if not to himself, sadly.

    In their abuse and in their extreme language, it is the Britnats who are unravelling daily while sites like this, Wings and Craig Murray go from strength to strength, both in their persuasive rhetoric and strength of argument.

    I’m not naturally optimistic (a faint ghost of The Scottish Cringe?) but feel it’s the beginning of the end for Londinium and its ghastly crew.

    “Things fall apart”, etc.

  8. Massie – what a disgusting little man. You know they are in full-blown panic mode and have lost the argument when they resort to language like that. Giving himself a proper showing up. Just as well AS has a thick skin, though it can’t be nice to have to put up with that kind of vitriol

  9. Butt trumpeting, metrocentric fuckwittery aside, Messrs Massie and White are what they are. They’ve dined and chin wagged with the great and the grimy of proper big toons donchaknow? They’ve met writers, political beasties and luvvies of every stripe in their careers to date. They’ve conversed in fluent, (bools in the mooth), tortured vowel syndrome with only the creme de la creme and lived to tell the tale.

    In short, they haven’t a Scooby outside of their cloistered world. Their arrogance and ignorance is such that they’ve become firm adherents of the holy order of ‘don’t do as I do. Do as I say’. They’re hypocrites and they’re not alone. Pretty much the entire metro commentariat fall into the same category. Titles, broadcasters, their spesh political relationships and their pundits couches. All filled with people long on opinion and short on both empathy or first hand knowledge.

    Mind you, that doesn’t make them bad people. Merely ignorant and arrogant. No, what makes you a bad person is knowingly telling lies about others. Knowingly putting innocent people in harms way. Knowingly twisting facts to suit a personal or compromised narrative for the sake of career, personal political belief or worse yet, simply because your somewhat motivated boss telt ye tae dae it. Looking the other way as others suffer because of your efforts.

    I don’t give a flying fuck if the Michael Whites of this world reckon they’re having a wee joke. Their ‘wee jokes’ hurt people. They empower others and confirm their twisted world views. If these halfwits are in any doubt as to their influence over their followers and readerships, they need only look out the window at today’s UK. Take a good look at our fractured society, austerity UK, Brexit Britain and take a bow. They have more than a passing responsibility for creating what misery they see. The political bias of their publishers, the broadcasters, even their own personal bias put in power those who made all this possible. The creator of the message and messenger.

    So yeah. That kind of act would make you a bad person then.

  10. Yet another excellent article, Paul. The lies from Richard Who? and nasty racist “banter” from Michael White this week were shocking but then to be followed by Paul Sinclair’s appalling article on Kezia Dugdale……..Alex Massie’s language, however, is beyond the pale.
    Why are those people behaving so badly? Can their their fear of Scottish independence be that extreme?

  11. One serious point, and it’s one I have seen and heard often. When you say ‘He’s not wreaked a fraction of the damage on this country that Boris Johnson has,’ and do not specify which country you are talking about, you are making it seem as though Scotland and England are one country. Which they are not and is, of course the whole damned point here.

    I’m genuinely not having a go at you in particular, Paul. It’s a common mistake, and it needs to be sorted out. Language is very important, as well you know, being a linguistics man, and this is not just pedantic semantics here. It’s just something in general that annoys me whenever and wherever I read or hear it, and makes me feel like a crotchety William S Burroughs correcting Allen Ginsberg in some 50s letter or other.

    Just an observation. Good stuff as ever, though, otherwise.

      • Of course I knew you meant Scotland, but therein lies the rub. I was illustrating a wider point. How many times have you heard ‘this country’ used to mean the whole UK, as if we are just one homogenous England-centric entity? You know what I mean, I’m sure.

        I’m genuinely not trying to be funny or nitpicky. It’s a personal bugbear of mine, cos I love words and linguistics too. And have recently started taking people to task in conversation, even in daily life, when they use ‘this country’ like that. I am chuckling here. Maybe I will have to leave ‘this country’ if I become any more insufferable and English teachery!

        Still laughing.

        • I find ‘country’ a bit ambiguous to be honest. Scotland is a Nation, as are the other three in the UK. Scotland and England are Kingdoms, Wales is a Principality, NI is a province. The UK is a sovereign state (for now hahaha …) Not quite sure where ‘country’ fits in even though it’s the most natural term.

        • It’s part and parcel of living in the (hopefully soon to be former) UK. When my late parents used to visit me in Finland they would talk about “this country”, but they weren’t meaning Finland. It seems to be an unconscious a way of avoiding numerous issues.

  12. Oh, bravo, Paul! An excellent post and one with which I wholeheartedly agree. Thank you particularly for putting the “c” word in the proper perspective. As a woman who can (and does) F and blind with the best of them I have always drawn the line at the “c” word, for the very reason that you outline.

    • I, myself, cannot imagine how anyone can use something beautiful as a term of abuse. That takes a particularly warped culture, to my mind.

  13. For no particular reason, Ewan McColl’s ‘The Father’s Song’ popped into my head today.

    That’s another day gone by, son, close your eyes
    For the moon is chasing clouds across the skies
    Got to sleep and have no fear, son
    For your mam and dad are near, son
    And the giant is just a shadow on the wall
    Go to sleep and when you wake it will be light
    There’s no need to fear the darkness of the night
    It’s not like the dark you find, son
    In the depths of some men’s minds, son
    That defies the daily coming of the dawn
    Stop crying now, let daddy dry your tears
    There’s no bogeyman to get you, never fear
    There’s no ogres, wicked witches
    Only greedy sons-of-bitches
    Who are waiting to exploit your life away
    Lie easy in your bed and grow up strong
    You’ll be needing all your strength before too long
    For you’ll soon be on your way, son
    Fighting battles every day, son
    With an enemy who thinks he owns the world
    Don’t you let ’em buy you out or break your pride
    Don’t you let yourself be used then cast aside
    If you listen to their lying
    They will con you into dying
    You won’t even know that you were once alive
    No more talking now it’s time to go to sleep
    There are answers to your questions but they’ll keep
    Go on asking while you grow, son
    Go on asking till you know, son
    And then send the answers ringing through the world’.

    ‘Fighting battles every day, son,
    With and enemy who thinks he owns the world’.

    ‘With an enemy who thinks he owns the world’.

    Now that Dugdale has gone off to join the outcasts of ‘I’m A Nonentity, Get Me In There’, and Gordon Brewer produces a ground breaking TV first, as opposed to his normal wind breaking, on ‘Sunday Politics’ by being the first ventriloquist to deliver his entire act without a dummy, when, (No, I’m sorry, it’s no good, I know Paul mentions his name several times above, but I still can’t remember the name of the little grey faced Yorkshireman, for whom nobody in Scotland voted but is now the Head Honcho Up Here because a massive 17,000 or so Lost Souls who still claim to be members of the Branch Office took part in a Leadership Election) failed to appear on Brewers little show.
    Brewer laced the entire broadcast with what {insert name} would have said about everything from BIfab rescue package, to AlecSammen on Rusky TV.

    Big Findlay the Brickie was First Sub, the third Labour Branch Office interim in as many weeks.

    He had such nice glowing words to say on Dugdale’s TV career.

    English Exceptionalists think that ‘they own the world’, and that not only we Scots, but 27 mature European nations will crumble and do England’s bidding.
    Michael White and Massie the poodle, are such creatures.
    They are in for a rude bruising wakening.

    I challenge anyone to go on YouTube and listen to McColl singing ‘The Father’s Song’ without emotion.

    ‘Go on asking till you know, son,
    And then send the answers ringing through the world’.

    Good night, guys.
    , ,

    • That’s why I don’t trust the England and it’s people they’re nothing but terrorists who spread fear and hate living so far in there terrorist past it’s sickening yet everyone else is at fault everytime the English screw up geez they sound like cartoon villains who beat up there lackeys for there own failed plans

    • I had forgotten that amazing song, Jack. Thanks for the reminder. And thanks for your usual cogent and apposite comments. I cannae mind that Whatsisname’s name either … and I lived a lot of years in Yorkshire …

  14. The English up here I don’t class as English they are fellow Scots as they’ve shown more loyalty to Scotland than die hard unionists like tank bicth ruthless has she’s no scot nor is anyone in her party the only thing they have is the accent that’s it nothing else

      • And as long as people sneeringly refer to them as “White Settlers” there is little hope of changing their minds, now is there? I was a “White Settler” once upon a time. I was already a believer in Independence when I married a Highlander and joined the SNP. This kind of racist cognomen does NOTHING to advance our cause, Guga.

      • I wonder how many are left not many I’m betting because some of those are embarrassed to even be English born because of what englands become seen a few of them on qt and on social media say it they’re turning guga all thanks to england so we should include them otherwise they’ll feel like an outcast I was one myself growing up in England I know that all to well

  15. Jack C
    A crackingly beautiful piece of writing in response to Paul’s essay. Exquisite.

    Some other, all other, excellent responses all well written and reasoned.

    It strikes me, and in my humble opinion, that there is some wonderful writing and thinking being produced by the re-independentistas both on this blog site and across others: Cutting edge not only in a Scottish context, but globally.

    A rebirth of the Scottish Enlightenment whilst the British establishment can only produce the dullest and most bovine of often offensive drivel by its hacks Dark Ages like in their tripe.

    Lang may your pens and keyboards reek to rigorously and riotously gut these reactionary haddies


  16. Massie is probably not an intellectual giant comfortable in the use of polysyllabic phraseology to convey the more nuanced aspects of a multifaceted argument. However, accusing him of being an intellectual pigmy may be doing a disservice to an African tribe or two. While Twitter is not an appropriate vehicle for complex dialogue, using invective to progress an opinion only highlights the shallowness of the argument. The same goes for shouting. Shouting, by Snow or O’Neill for example, is not a substitute for a rational discussion. Maybe we are seeing the beginning of the end game. The argument has been lost; let’s shout and swear. There are hints on the Internet that the pressure cooker atmosphere within the big hoose by the Thames is not sustainable and something is going to blow. Choose your own trigger – there are many options.

    Meanwhile, it is somewhat oxymoronic that a) Ms Dugdale should consider herself a celebrity – many dawn sarth in Englandshire will not have heard of her and b) that spending three weeks in the antipodean tropics eating the unmentionables of marsupials while wired for sound should be, in any way, considered ‘reality’. How bad must it be within the Scottish accounting branch of the labour party that being banged up with Boris’ dad can seem an attractive alternative? But the smearing of Ms Dugdale is not nice, especially where it brings in her personal relationships but, to the msm, it is no different journalistically from the blizzard of dire predictions of it being the worst winter ever (since the last worst winter ever).

    While all this is going, there is the danger of being squirreled; distracted from promoting normalisation of the concept of Scotland being an independent nation. As the saying goes, don’t give up the day job.

  17. Now that the precedent has been set, the English Government can defy science and empirical evidence and vote Flat Earthism or the Sun orbiting the Earth into statute.

    The moon will be made of green cheese if Westminster says so.

    Spookily Celebrities die is lots of three, if the Ayes have it.

    God did build the Earth in 6 days and put his feet up watching Gordon Brewdog on Sunday Yoon Politics with a nice wee cuppa and two plain digestives on the seventh day.

    If the English MPs say so, then it must be so.

    Yesterday, the ‘British people’ through their elected representatives, (well English MPs mostly) defied all those tiresome scientific experts whom Gove was slagging off t’other week, and decided that animals cannot feel pain or demonstrate/express emotions.(not we human animals though, but, mind, although some Tory MPs believe that Gypsies might be sub human)

    So it’ll be ok for dogs to rip foxes to bits now, or fat bloated rich folk to blast partridge out of the sky with shotguns, or, why not?, bazookas.

    We now have a clearer picture of the mad house that is Brexit-fevered Westminster.

    The Brit Nat Yoons have melded into an anti European homogenous blob of Far Left Corbyn Trotskies who have hated the EU since the start, as per their USSR Masters diktat, the podgy soft Yellow Lib Dem Middle Earth, who want to stay in Europe, but somehow win over 17 million White Red Neck English xenophobes, and the Far Right Tory Establishment, who are hell bent on turning Merrie Old EngWaland into the 51st US State.

    Ian Murray was roundly slapped down by his party colleagues for wanting a customs union included in the Brexit talks.

    There is no difference between Red Tory and Blue Tory Brexit policy.
    Hard Exit, no deal, WTO here we come, and to hang with the economic, social, and political consequences.

    62% of us Scots voted Remain.
    Do the English care? Do the Yoon ProudscotsBut MPs care? Tough titties.
    Do they fuck.

    They are there to do their Whips bidding, and it’s time that Murray toed the line.
    England will be great again.
    The time is approaching when the English parliament will run out of options, and we in Scotland grasp the thistle, and launch Indyref2.

  18. Ian murrays amendment defeat in the hoc last night was the final nail in the coffin for any hope over brexit…we are truly stuffed, combined with Rudd gagging the child abuse papers, animal having no feelings, and the uc being implemented without giving a damn….angry and disgusted doesn’t cover it….there’s damn all left that’s not been corrupted by the wm mafia….indy 2 the only bright light on the horizon…

    • Exactly, Kat.
      When Toyota, and Honda, and Jaguar, and Range Rover start looking at sites in Latvia and Romania, will the penny drop?
      England is a little lump of valueless real estate in this big bad world now.
      Yet they will talk of winning the Football World Cup next summer, and actually think that they are good enough to compete with Germany, Italy, Spain, France ,and Brazil.
      My analogy is deliberate.
      Their delusion is really quite sad to witness.
      The Tribe That Lost Its Head.
      WE are not going down into Hades with them. That’s for sure.

      • There delusional attitudes that’s not even the half of it there delusion has no bottom no matter how much shite hits the fan oh england is in no danger england is supreme england can handle anything no problem 26 years of that crap no wonder I returned back to Scotland the very nation I was born

    • Agreed Kat – while half of the electorate here either dont care or dont want to think about it and just want to get under the covers and wish it all went away ,
      Well sleepy ones Brexit aint going away , if you are going to sit and let the people in another country ,because england is whether you like it or not is a different country with its own distinct legal and education system the last i looked we are not an extention of england , look at the map there we are Scotland . Waken up up Please .

      • “while half of the electorate here either dont care or dont want to think about it and just want to get under the covers and wish it all went away”

        This sums it up for me and it is terrifying thought these people are going to walk us off the cliff because they don’t seem to give a toss.

        Of course the Beeb are doing their best to airbrush the situation and spin it for all they are worth. What coverage was there yesterday of the EU decision to move the Banking and Health regulators? Not much, just give it a quick mention and move on. What about the St Jeremy lining up with the Tories to vote us out of the Customs Union? Not much, in fact not much about how Scotland voted to stay in and all options for us have seemingly be thrown away. What about the humiliating U-turn by the Brits in regard to paying the divorce settlement, oh no let’s defend that and make out it depends on trade talks starting (yeh right). The BBC not fit for purpose and now truly just the propaganda arm of the UK Government.

  19. I really took exception to Michael White’s tweet, as did many people. The fact that he is a regular columnist of the Guardian, which I have read regularly since I moved to this country 40+ years ago, makes the matter worse. However, it is not surprising, as the Guardian itself is really hopeless when it comes to Scotland. It is the sheer arrogance of that wee ‘banter’, you know, we don’t have a sense of humour us Scots if we can’t take that joke. Aye, like all good racist joke, the object of the joke has problems with laughing.

    • I think I’m in the absolute minority, but when I saw Michael White’s tweet I wondered if it wasn’t actually a sideswipe reply to Tomkins who made the crass remark about Leonard being an English guy. Taken in isolation, White’s tweet is crass and unforgivable, but in context I felt he was ripping Tomkins a new one for his apparent anti-Englishness. White can be abrasive and insulting sometimes, but in this case i think he was open to misinterpretation.

  20. Like you Jack I find those absolute idiots agreeing animals have no feelings absurd.

    It is back to the good old days when the church stated that Man is unique and animals have no souls and cannot go to heaven. Maybe the fact they cannot speak English condemns them as well.

    As a keeper of animals I know this is not true. All farmers and abattoir workers know this also.

    They, most of our MP’s must be ignorant baboons.

    • What you expect when 3 of the party’s are nothing but Englands puppets Leonard is corbyn ruthies mays and rennie cables puppet and where are those 3 based London capital of England

  21. We must be the only country in the world that shows a disdain/disregard for their own nation/people all other countries have a massive pride in what/who they are,why are we so different?

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