The rotten fence


There’s a wooden fence. It’s painted red white and blue, but underneath that coat of paint the fence is rotten, worm eaten, fragile. It’s only the paint that holds it together. It looks solid, it looks like a fence that can keep out the angry, the dissapointed, the disillusioned, and the determined, but as soon as the fence is tested it will fall apart. That’s where we are now in this UK, Scottish independence is kept at bay by a rotten fence which is coated with the paint of Boris Johnson’s refusal to allow another independence referendum.

The SNP won a convincing victory in Scotland in last week’s General Election, standing on a mandate to give Scotland the right to determine its own future. But mandates and elections don’t count for a great deal in Scotland. But but but Scotland doesn’t want independence, they tell us. But but but the SNP said that a vote for them in this General Election wasn’t a vote for independence. But but but the SNP didn’t get more than 50% of the total vote share. The spurious reasons come thick and fast.

We don’t know if Scotland wants independence or not, for the simple reason that those insisting that Scotland doesn’t want independence refuse to put the question to the test. But if they were really so confident in the correctness of their assertions, then why are they so frightened, hiding in a fridge in order to avoid the question. They tell us that they don’t want a referendum because it was divisive, but the only violence that resulted from the 2014 referendum came from British nationalist thugs running rampage in George Square after the result was announced. Are the British nationalists really telling us that Scotland can’t have another referendum because they can’t control themselves?

Yes indeed, the SNP were saying that a vote for them in last week’s General Election was not a vote for independence, what they were saying was that it was a vote for Scotland’s right to decide its own path whatever that path may be. Having a referendum is not the same as independence. They are quite different and quite distinct propositions. If holding an independence referendum really was the same as becoming independent then Scotland would have become independent as soon as the 2014 indyref was announced. I don’t know if the Tories have noticed, but we’re not independent. It just currently suits the Conservatives to conflate those two issues. They think that you’re stupid, they think that you can’t remember what you were told just a few days ago.

We’re not independent, so the result of the 2014 referendum is being respected. That’s how you respect the result of a referendum in which people campaigning against independence won a majority. Disrespecting the result of that referendum would entail overturning that majority without another vote on the matter. No one is proposing that. But it’s not just the losers of popular votes who need to respect the outcome. It’s far more important that those who won that vote respect the promises and commitments that they made in order to win it. If they don’t respect their own promises and commitments, then it’s them who are the ones who are disrespecting the referendum. If they refuse to allow the electorate to hold them to account, then they’re not only disrespecting the referendum but they are also demanding the right to lie and cheat with impugnity. Democracy dies if that is allowed to happen. Whenever Boris Johnson or Jackson Carlaw demands that the result of the 2014 is respected, they are demanding the right to lie without having to face the consequences.

Perhaps the most common ah-buttery being put about on social media by British nationalists who see their precious union collapse like a rotten fence is that the SNP did not win over 50% of the popular vote in this election. Neither did Boris Johnson, but that doesn’t stop him claiming that he has a mandate for the Brexit of his choosing. This was a General Election, not a referendum. If you want to apply a referendum’s rules to a General Election, I have some biodegradable straws for you to clutch at in order to save you from embarrassing yourself.

It is irrelevant to the outcome of another independence referendum that “only” 45% of the Scottish voting public who registered a vote voted for the SNP. The turnout in the referendum is likely to be far higher, and not everyone who votes for independence is going to vote SNP. We know from opinion polling that there’s a very large segment of Labour parrty supporters in Scotland who would vote for independence. You cannot conflate support for the SNP with support for independence. British nationalists just like to do so in order to make themselves feel better, and pretend to themselves that everyone who votes against the SNP is also voting against independence. It stops them from examining how rotten their fence is.

By Westminster’s own rules, the SNP won this election handsomely, and their victory was far more convincing than Boris Johnson’s supposed landslide. Boris Johnson won 43.6% of the popular vote on a turnout of 67.3%. The SNP won 45.0% on a turnout of 68.1%. Boris Johnson was 11.5% ahead of his nearest rivals in the popular vote. The SNP was 19.9% ahead of its nearest rivals in the popular vote. Boris Johnson won 56.2% of UK seats. The SNP won 81.4% of seats in Scotland. If Boris Johnson has a mandate for Brexit, the SNP has an even stronger mandate for another independence referendum, and moreover this is the fourth mandate for another referendum that has been won by the SNP.

For all their bravado, braggadocio, and bragging, British nationalists in Scotland are terrified. They know that Thursday’s election was a dreadful one for unionism, that it signalled a divergence in views between Scotland and the rest of the UK that cannot be bridged by nawbaggery and a refusal to engage. You can’t run a Union on saying no. You can’t maintain a partnership when one partner insists that it has a veto over whether the other can decide if it wishes to remain in the partnership. All that Boris Johnson’s refusals will achieve is to make the vote for yes even greater when Scotland finally has its say. And make no mistake, Scotland will have its say one way or another. The UK is a rotten fence. We’re pushing against it.

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71 thoughts on “The rotten fence

  1. Its the sheer fucking arrogance of them.

    A party that has consistently been rejected at the polls and managed to only get 25%, feels it can talk at Scotland about what it can and cannot do, because it managed to get 45% of the vote in England.

    The only party that has no mandate to do anything at all in Scotland. That has no right to talk for Scotland whatsoever. Is the fucking tories.

    When are they going to start listening?

    • The Tories in Scotland a party that has never won an election in Scotland thinks it is born to rule through using the votes from another country. I know what I call these people.

  2. Thanks for this article Paul that points out the obvious, that is unless you’d rather just bury your head in the sand or hide away in a fridge, rather than a ditch, or more to the point deliberately lie about our chances of winning Indyref2.

    ..”It is irrelevant to the outcome of another independence referendum that “only” 45% of the Scottish voting public who registered a vote voted for the SNP. The turnout in the referendum is likely to be far higher, and not everyone who votes for independence is going to vote SNP. We know from opinion polling that there’s a very large segment of Labour party supporters in Scotland who would vote for independence. You cannot conflate support for the SNP with support for independence.”..

    I’ve read that 40% of Labour supporters (how many is that?) want to live in an Independent Scotland. How many of them voted for the Labour party last Thursday, in an attempt to support their struggling leader and keep LBJ out? More to the point how many of the 60% will now vote for Independence versus living in an out of the EU Tory run UK for another 5 to 10 years? And of course this could apply to some Lib-dem supporters and maybe even some Scottish Tories too.


    I posted this on the last article, however it ”fits” well on here, imo.


    This was taken from elsewhere, but I’m sure that Effijy won’t mind me posting it on here. If you haven’t done so already, and support Scottish Independence, sign up. And a big thank you, from me, to Effijy who has been trying to promote this petition constantly, for months now, against all odds … complaints from so-called Independence supporters telling her to drop it..


    ”Effijy says: 14 December, 2019.

    The First Minister’s Independence petition was struggling to reach the target 300,000 signatures after some months and 8,000 short with just days until the election.

    I am delighted to report that it is roaring through the 404,000 mark and moving faster that the high speed train England wants Scotland to pay for. Over 100,000 signatures in just a few days.”

  3. There is a newspaper I would not even use in the toilet.i just happened to have a read of today (.i did not buy it.) if you can try and read the comment by a so called journalist.Bill Leckie.Scottish sun columnist. would never know he was a unionist.he runs Nicola Sturgeon down to the lowest.says there is no chance of a second independence referendum.that the Tory government rules. and can just ignored long as it wants.that Nicola Sturgeon.and others are just full of wind.and hot air. that Bojo.would just laugh at other words get back in your box.after reading this rubbish this is all the more reason we have to get out of this discredited union.the quicker the anyone in this proud Scotland.can vote for a unionist party is beyond me.roll on Independence.
    (.if you can please read it.the Scottish Sun.Bill 13.)

  4. According to BBC news app Nicola Sturgeon has apologised for cheering when it was announced Jo Swinson had been lost her seat. Why on earth did she have to apologise she was cheering the Snp candidate had won. She never mentioned Jo’s name. As an East Dunbartonshire constituent I was ecstatic when I found out Jo was gone was I not allowed to cheer. The BBC is nothing but a propaganda service. I will strongly support any attempt to get rid of the Tv licence. I don’t see why I should continue to pay for such a crap service any longer

    • That assertion was spread far and wide, even the in Irish Indy, an interpretation which seems to have been suspiciously coordinated.
      Why the hell should she not be cheering for Amy Callaghan having won ?

    • I didn’t know Nicola Sturgeon had felt the need to apologise, she should have told then where to stick their apology quite frankly. Swindle was a dreadful politician, a full on liar, who voted for every dreadful Tory so called austerity ( ie sanctioning the poorest most vulnerable people in the land) so called policy.

      You can ditch the BBC, the propaganda tool of the Britnat state. Do not pay it if you do not wish to watch live tv or catch up, the tv license is a tax. You cannot be locked up in Scotland ( under Scots Law) for ‘debt’ which is why they cannot threaten people in Scotland with prison if they do not pay up re; the tv tax! That must really annoy the hell out of them! You can be locked up for non payment of fines, but that is a whole different kettle of fish in the context of tv tax, unless someone watched BBC wall to wall, LOL, and refused to pay up, lol! It’s why people contribute to pro Indy blogs in fact. 🙂

      I was in touch with family in NE Eng. since the GE and they are horrified at the BJ result of course, they do though display little if any empathy with Scotland, but then they pay the TV tax and watch Sky propaganda, so not surprised. They would never dream of NOT paying the tv tax for fear of the jail!

      Apparently my cous ‘refuses to watch the news’ now, well that’s handy for the Britnats, turn people off, very very convenient. The politically illiterate are who we should worry about, they are not stupid, but have no time, energy or head space for such matters, when life is actually a bit difficult anyway. Hmm.

      Scotland woke up a wee while ago, thank god.

    • I was switching channels and practising a new tune waiting for the election results – and had just got the jist about 3.30am – then recorded it on the iPad so I could remember what I was doing next day. The East Dunbartonshire result came up just as I finished – and if you look closely, you’ll see my reaction.

      Not in the same league as Nicola, but I’d like to take this opportunity to apologise too if I’ve hurt Jo’s feelings. It was serendipity I was smiling at!

  5. Excellent summation Paul…
    Given what Jackass Carcrash pontificated – “The Union is on the ballot”, let alone what was plastered front and back of their Scottish electoral leaflets, they have nowhere to hide on how THEY pitched it to the electorate, nor the resounding response they got to it…

  6. What a difference a border makes.
    On the English side the BEEB report a HUGE majority and landslide for Boris.

    On the Scottish side BEEB Scottish cringe give a grudging, under-reported “win” for the ‘nationalists’. Followed by minority parties whinging about life—and the Toadie being allowed, unchallenged, to claim “NOTHING HAS CHANGED”!
    Whit? Did we just dream the Brit Nats and their colonial media chums were utterly humiliated. Utterly!
    As Paul states, the stats show an alternative Universe—a Universe where Boris is an also-ran.

  7. Pingback: The rotten fence | speymouth

  8. This reliance on number of votes cast for a ‘mandate’ in a FPTP election rather than number of seats won is of course nonsense and, as Paul shows, in any event it would hardly favour the Tory case for a mandate in government.

    One of the big dividing lines in the GE manifestos was between those parties that wanted ‘Brexit done’ (Tories, Brexit Party, UKIP) and those that wanted a second (confirmatory) referendum on BREXIT (Labour, Lib Dems, Greens, Plaid, SNP). Not sure what the actual positions of NI parties on a second referendum were.

    Has anyone else looked at vote share? My calculation is that in terms of votes cast in GB seats there was a majority of votes cast for parties that supported a second EU referendum. It makes no difference now to the outcome as the power of a majority of seats trumps all but its just another flaw in the spurious BritNat/Tory argument that the SNP has no mandate based on popular vote share.

    • ”My calculation is that in terms of votes cast in GB seats there was a majority of votes cast for parties that supported a second EU referendum.”’

      Correct stewart. This was mentioned on the BBC following the result. And never mentioned again!

    • I saw the Scottish Daily Hail front page stating in extremely large block capitals that a 45% vote share is not a mandate for Sturgeon. Of course they ignored the Greens share of the vote but more importantly they did not apply the same logic, as you say, that Johnson hasn’t got a mandate either.

      Of course it is a GE on ftp so that is not accurate either way. Just Britnats clutching at straws. We’ll soon see if the Britnats are for democracy or fascism. Not long now. If it’s fascism then terminate the Treaty of Union. In my opinion on election night a lot of the Britnats were starting to sound like fascists. What’s next will they burn down Holyrood. It worked for Hitler.

      • Not necessarily burn down, but the power to shut down arbitrarily is explicitly included in the BJ Withdrawal Agreement about to be brought back to Westminister, as published in the House of Lords debate after the Second Reading in the Commons.

        • Yes saw that. It is amazing that very little was made of that during the election or even now.

          Well if they attempt to shut down Holyrood then there will be no doubt the Conservatives are fascists.

  9. Boris is not supreme in any way … he might like to think so but his future behaviour towards Scotland will only increase the Indy demand and vote. The young want it …it will happen

    The eyes of the world are watching you Boris … you and your supposed democracy

  10. ” The UK is a rotten fence. We’re pushing against it”

    Whenever I’ve had a rotten fence I pull it down and replace it with something new and fit for purpose.

  11. Following on from that tickled me from an English perspective, particularly with Demonic Cummings comment lower left…
    One of their “Guardian Pick” under the same “When he says one nation he means England….” is well worth the read…
    Meanwhile Scotland’s Fire Exit awaits, just a few charlatans to elbow aside…..

  12. The Britnat media describes:

    A landslide for Boris Johnson and the Conservatives = winning 56.2% of the seats available.

    A good night for the SNP = winning 81.4% of the seats available.

    There is your Britnat media bias/ propaganda in nice simple terms.

  13. Hi Paul. My understanding is that the Northern Ireland Act 1998 stipulates that a secretary of state for NI may not make provision for a border poll within seven years of a previous poll. Does this not have some relevance / set some sort of precedent with regards the once in a lifetime Unionist BS re Indyref2? Grateful for your take on this.

    • It doesn’t set a precedent for Scotland no. The truth is that British nationalists are always going to seek some reason or other in order to forestall another referendum. They’ve seized on Salmond’s words because it provides them with a nice soundbite. If it wasn’t for that they’d just find some other, equally spurious, reason.

      The real reason that they don’t want another referendum is because they think they’re likely to lose it.

      • They are running scared. It’s not like the old days when Wendy Alexander would pitch up on the TV goading Alex Salmond to get on with setting a date for indyref 1. Bring it on said Miss Alexander.

        There are so many of these here today gone tomorrow politicians – particularly from British Labour in Scotland. Dugdale not even a member now of Labour.

      • Don’t disagree Paul but as this ‘once in a generation’ issue is clearly going to be brought up time after time it’s important to get the reference to the statement in the Good Friday Agreement absolutely clear.

        It may not be a ‘precedent’ legally for Scotland but it does indicate – as just one part of our case – what frequency of revisiting a comparable constitutional decision via a referendum has already been, formally, accepted by a UK Government,

        But Robert Miller and others can judge for themselves. Below is a direct quote from the section of the Agreement that refers to a period of ‘seven’ years.

        “SCHEDULE 1
        1. The Secretary of State may by order direct the holding of a poll for the purposes of section 1 on a date specified in the order.
        2. Subject to paragraph 3, the Secretary of State shall exercise the power under paragraph 1 if at any time it appears likely to him that a majority of those voting would express a wish that Northern Ireland should cease to be part of the United Kingdom and form part of a united Ireland.
        3. The Secretary of State shall not make an order under paragraph 1 earlier than seven years after the holding of a previous poll under this Schedule.”


        • Even if we did stick to 7 years, that seems about likely anyway. That would be September 2021. It is pretty unlikely that ScotRef2 will be in 2020, despite what the SNP say. In fact, towards the latter part of 2021 would be a pretty good time to do it.

        • Whilst on this subject of ‘once in a generation’. Out of interest I’ve just revisited this.

          In the White Paper ‘Scotland’s Future’ the term ‘opportunity’ is used 21 times. Mostly this term is used to refer to a benefit of independence. But three references play into the position adopted by political opponents. So it’s important again to be clear what was written.:

          On page 1: “If we vote No, Scotland stands still. A once in a generation opportunity to follow a different path, and choose a new and better direction for our nation, is lost. Decisions about Scotland would remain in the hands of others. “

          Preface by Alex Salmond: “The debate we are engaged in as a nation is about the future of all of us lucky enough to live in this diverse and vibrant country. It is a rare and precious moment in the history of Scotland – a once in a generation opportunity to chart a better way.”

          Para 557 : “It is the view of the current Scottish Government that a referendum is a once-in-a-generation opportunity. This means that only a majority vote for Yes in 2014 would give certainty that Scotland will be independent.”

          This last one is the interesting one: “… it is the view of the CURRENT Scottish Government ….”!

          Of course whether it was a once in a generation opportunity or not is down to us the sovereign people of Scotland and NOT to a transitory political leader or government.

          • “Once in a generation?”

            It states in the Smith Commission Report that there is nothing in their report to prevent us from holding another referendum “in the future” (article 18). Other than the Tories! No mention of “once in a generation” there.

            The representatives of all political parties, eg, Labour, Tory and Lib-dems, signed up to, agreed with, that.


          • Well yes, “once in a life-time” was put to us three times in the White Paper and guess what, we rejected it. The Scottish Government need to listen to the electorate and learn the lesson that any reference to ideas like “once in a life-time” in the next version of the White Paper are unpopular, undemocratic and quite contrary to constitutionally established sovereignty of the Scottish people. We will have our say. We will not be told when or how often.

          • The white paper is irrelevant it was rejected by the people of Scotland and was not a signatory document. The Edinburgh agreement and the Smith commission are signed documents by both sides and agreed. Both state specifically no restriction on future referendums. Also the Smith commission is a document after the white paper which has legal affect.

            This whole once in a generation is just nonsense and should be shot down in flames as soon as it raised by any Britnats. The Britnats are drowning and clutching at straws like once in a generation won’t save them.

    • Robert my view is that if the people of Scotland vote to have a referendum every 6 months, for example, then that is what should happen. I say that as someone who is not that keen on referendums.

      In Switzerland they have referendums all the time on all manner of topics.

  14. Again. You are perfectly in your rights to withdraw your support for the media in Scotland. Especially the BBC. If you abide by the rules it is perfectly legal to do so and having done it some years back, find myself not missing any of it.

    • Ah David you missed the smug smile on Scot Tory Colin Clarks face when he first of all thought he had won when his vote tally was announced only to have his smiled wiped away when the SNP candidate topped his vote.


    • Looks to me that from what I have read I can’t even watch Netflix or Amazon Prime without a tv licence which is ridiculous. As far as I am concerned often these days BBC is not a public broadcast channel but an establishment propaganda service so time to end tv license

    • Hi Welsh Sion – I don’t know if you have access to our National newspaper (of which our illustrious host is a columnist 🙂 ) but there’s a full page breakdown of every Scottish result, and I was struck by how virtually every one showed a swing to the SNP. So I can’t help wondering if we’re already starting to see some of our new baby voters who are finally becoming eligible to vote starting to feed through – which all bodes well for indy 2!

      • I do indeed, mumsyhugs – I’ve been a subscriber since the first issue!

        You are indeed fortunate, and I am happy to be a Member of the winning party at this General Election in your country (not quite as successful as my other national Party at ‘home’ … but we strengthen the majorities of the seats we had already won and did not go backwards at least.)

        We do not really have a daily newspaper like yours which is pro-indy, indeed, there are not even Welsh versions of ‘ex-Fleet Street’ newspapers. (I s’pose we should be grateful for that – considering what “%$*&^%$ is produced by the ‘Scottish’ Mail, the ‘Scottish’ Express and so forth).

        Looking forward to working with you all again in the push for indy (for both our countries). Enjoy my Christmas carol elsewhere on this thread, and feel free to share and sing it, too!

        Best wishes,

        • I gave up reading\watching mainstream guff years ago once my eyes were opened to the truly appalling bias, lies and propaganda I was being fed – bad for my blood pressure! Anyone who values their health and sanity should do the same – and of course we’re so lucky to have The Dug who has taken on doing that dirty job for us so we don’t have to! 🙂

  15. Having attended a Christmas carol concert tonight, I share with you my version of an old favourite. I know we’re not quite there yet, but we can live in hope and expectation. Who knows, by Christmas next year, the sentiments of the carol may well have come true!

    Feel free to sing and share …

    3. (of 21.)

    Hark! the Herald journos sing

    Hark! the Herald journos sing:
    “Scottish Indy’s just the thing!”
    Joy at home and mercy mild
    No and Yessers reconciled.
    Joyful let our nation rise,
    Join the triumph of the ‘Ayes’
    With th’angelic host proclaim:
    “Scotland’s re-born to much acclaim.”
    Hark! the Herald journos sing:
    “Scottish Indy’s just the thing!”

    [With acknowledgements]

    Songs for the New Politics

  16. The power to initiate an independence referendum must lie with our parliament.
    Westminster reserving to itself that ability is not democratically defensible,especially when the nature of the UK state is internationally recognised for what it is.
    A multinational state similar to the old Soviet Union with power reserved to the largest member nation.
    Scots must have the right to determine our constitutional arrangements at any time, should circumstances change and the need for something different being required for the common good.
    And by God,is something different now required.

    • A classic line in this Guardian article:

      “There is no bum into which Gove won’t thrust his nose.”

      Thanks for link Petra – gave me a good laugh that one.

      What a sleezeball Gove is.

  17. Kirsty Strickland says in the National that voters for Johnson endorsed being lied to. They don’t seem to care.

    Is it really any wonder – they are lied to all the time by the Britnat media and the average Britnat politician so they may as well go full in and appoint a serial liar who many see the fact that Johnson being racist as well is a good thing rather than something to be despised. As they took their selfies with Johnson across England how many cared about his racist comments about fellow UK citizens. How many cared about his comments about Scots.

    Being a racist is a bonus now for a Tory politician. Lying is just the standard – the norm.

    What a standard for a UK PM a liar and a racist.

  18. Johnson and his “elite friends” will hit a wall come February 2020 when the gloves come off.. No longer shielded under the EU umbrella as they desired, they will emerge into a world which is palpably hostile to their presumed importance, and Johnson will become the hunted, at home and abroad… England is sitting on a powder keg of lies and promises the manipulators hope to contain, but it only takes one stray spark…
    It is imperative SG make formal demand/request for the S30 before then, even if signalled to be refused, the world is watching, and on our side…. Scotland must be seen to have done everything by the book…

  19. I was surprised that British Labour in Scotland actually got as high a figure as 18.5% of the vote. What a waste of a vote. If they had voted SNP some of their votes may have locked out some more Tory MPs in Scotland.

    Sad that there are still so many dim British labour in Scotland voters still clinging on to Christmas miracles. Years wasted longing for a Corbyn miracle that was never going to happen. How many decades of Tory UK rule will it take for them to realise Scottish independence is the only route if you want a decent and prosperous Scotland.

    Anyway Blair stole our Scottish waters as well. What sort of proudscotbut accepts that.

    18.5% really. We may not be too poor or too wee but we certainly have some that are stupid.

  20. Excellent article. I love the analogy of a rotten wooden fence painted in shiny red, white and blue. That’s al that’s holding us back now and the sheen certainly came off with all that “Johnsons Pledge” Brexit paint stipper that has been applied so effectively. The rotten wood below has been exposed and the MSM are desperately trying to aplly a ew coat. Sooner or later they are going to run out of blue paint. 🙂

  21. In Scotland at the very heart of the matter is the principle of consent.
    This is accepted in most legal systems as applying to individuals and in every democratic country as to the wider community through the ballot box.
    The UK union is not broken because it never existed in the first place.
    Scots were allowed to send representatives to England’s parliament and were conned into thinking that this satisfied our consent to whatever the Westminster government of the day decided for us.
    Brexit has exposed the whole scam for everyone to see it clearly for what it is.
    The principle that we Scots must have the right to hold referendums that affect Scotland at any time of our choosing must be respected.
    England’s Tories do not own Scotland,at least not the people of Scotland.

  22. Scotland has come a long way in the last twenty years. Devolution 2000. Now Scotland has a Party to vote for that will stand up for Scotland. Good people and true. The lies and hypocrisy of Westminster can be shown up. A different place.

    People are taking their future into their own hands. It will be even better with Independence. Support increasing all the time. Scotland is going it’s own way in any case. The Thatcherite lies can be exposed. Instead of covered up. The unionists on the run.

    It was obvious no one would vote for Corbyn but his ego and illusion would not step aside for the sake of other people. The policies years out of date.

    The hypocritical turn around on Trident etc. The principles out the door for some deluded power. They just can’t help themselves. He stayed in a Party whose policies he disagreed with for years instead of going off and doing something useful.

    The pitiful sight of people with nothing voting for Tory lying hypocrites, like Johnston. Clutching at deluded straws. Their idol will have false promises. Made of clay. They soon will find that out.

    The Brexit mess created by the Tories will come back to bite them, They cannot Brexit without high unemployment and destroying the economy. Deja Vu. They had to get rid of Thatcher to improve the economy with closer ties with Europe. Thatcher had 15% unemployment and interest rates at 17%. Deregulated banking and destroyed the world banking system.

    Labour did the rest with illegal wars, financial fraud and tax evasion. The Laborites are now giving Blair as an example of success. A warmongering failure.

    Scotland is going it’s own way. The SNP. Gov standing up for Scotland. Support for Independence increasing. The UK EU contribution (£12Billion) does not even cover the cost of the mess and displacement of millions of people. The UK/US illegal wars. The European countries have to pick up the cost and sort out the destruction.

    The EU costs Scotland nothing and brings benefits. CAP payments and grants. Shared Defence costs. Nearest biggest market. Investment from the ECB who will help out with Independence. They helped Germany reunification and other eastern bloc countries with Independence. Now flourishing and prosperous.

    The reason people in Scotland achieved Devolution. There was less democracy for Scotland in the UK Union compared to eastern bloc countries. Outvoted 10 to 1. It’s resources funds illegally and secretly taken to fund Westminster illegal policies. Illegal wars, financial fraud and tax evasion. Endorsed by the Westminster hypocrites and the sycophant Press.

    Recognised by the EU/UN Charters. The right to self determination and self government if people voted for it. Devolution by Westminster Tories for 20 years. Thatcher. Until it could be denied no longer.

    Every Westminster politician who does not support Independence for Scotland does not last very long. An omen.

    • Yes Ken and Labour still after all these years peddling the lie The great Donald resurrected the Scottish Parliament , when it was actually the Council of Europe that threatened the British Governments continued membership of the then EEC , the great Donald was instrumental in making sure the coastline at Arbroath was in English waters and the debacle of the first devolution vote was a way of trying to scupper the instructions given by the Council of Europe,
      Labour have been even a bigger obstacle than the Tory party and they are getting exactly what they rightly deserve , and by god it’s sweet revenge .

  23. The false figures now claimed. The difference between a GE and a Ref not considered. A Ref a one issue vote. A GE multiple parties and candidates.

    GE election 16+ and migrants not allowed to vote. Migrants who voted No in Scotland to stay in the EU. The lies. They will now vote YES. It takes 200,000 to change from No to Yes. Easily achieved just by the migrant vote and those who support Remain. (68% now higher).

    The best time to have an IndyRef is when it can be won. Support still increasing. A Johnston Gov will increase it further.

  24. Well I guess my last contribution must have disappeared into the cosmos , anyway the short version is I will never trust another word Andrew Marr says after this mornings performance , he truly is a well trained house Jock .Its amazing how fear of dismissal concentrates the mind , yes Andrew you passed yer test pal .

    • I watched the Marr show this morning – what a slimy Britnat is Marr. Starting to think that mumsyhugs advice above to just not view their Britnat crap may well be for the best. Just gets you in a bad mood.

      Only in the Britnat BBC could an interview with Nicola Sturgeon start with the words – you’ve got a problem. In any normal country she would be congratulated for her electoral success in the first instance. It is the Britnats who have the problem. They are looking more and more like a bunch of fascists.

      Nicola Sturgeon stated:

      ” In what other kind of democracy would the party that lost the election which in Scotland is the Conservatives get to dictate to the party that won the election.”

      I can answer that for her it is – fascist Conservative democracy.

      If there is no democracy then it is time to terminate the Treaty of Union.


      “Scotland cannot be imprisoned in the UK against its will.”
      ” A subversion of democracy.”

      Marr also said Johnson would give her the “bums rush” – what an appalling comment from a total Britnat slimeball.

      To end in a positive note Sturgeon stood her ground and dealt with all Marrs ignorant comments in her normal concise stateswoman manner.

      When we get independence if we do not immediately shut down all these billionaire owned Britnat papers and close the doors of Propaganda Quay and STV then I will have to personally join the SNP to press for this. Sick of these Organisations – they are not just a disgrace they damage the health and well being of the people of Scotland.

      • They are worth watching if only to be aware of the establishment line, and it is not only Scotland where alarm bells are ringing over claimed impartiality, even if the Scots version is a lot more blatant and irritating.
        Caught up on QT this morning, and media bias cropped up time and again from the English audience, so much so that Bruce got rather defensive… It didn’t stop the nonsense being peddled, but from what was applauded there is markedly more scepticism showing..
        SNP to their credit come over well to the public in such shows, which must be a source of endless frustration to the manipulators…
        The media has done itself no favours by overdoing the bias, propaganda only works if the recipient doesn’t recognise it as such…

        • Bob People in Scotland must be confused as to where they are , turn on the TV any Channel it really doesn’t matter , and what do you hear Yep no prizes for the answer English voices try a different channel same thing , We don’t figure , we don’t register on their radar unless we make trouble , because we are supposed to sit and be quiet while the Adults Speak , nothing against English people but this is not England , it reminds me of the English tourist in Spain when asked about her trip , it was ok she said but there were too many Spanish people speaking eh Spanish , and she thought this was a normal comment , gee wiz give me bloody strength .

          • An anecdote from the 1960’s for you Robert Graham – at the time the UK was negotiating to join the Common Market.

            Source: A letter from a woman rather miffed after her visit to a Paris and staying at an expensive hotel.

            Dear Sir,

            I understand that many of our ‘friends’ in the so-called Common Market want us to join them in their ventures.

            You can imagine my dismay therefore when I turned on the tap marked ‘C’ in my hotel room in Paris and out came Hot water, when I obviously wanted Cold water.

            If the Europeans can not get basic things like this right, and accommodate us British accordingly, I feel that we would be better off not joining their Common Market in the first place.

            Yours etc.,.

  25. Let’s wait and see what the next opinion poll on Independence says.

    The Tory tactics will be all about how badlt the SNP runs Scotland. It will be aided and abetted by the media in Scotland and of course the BBC.

    It already surfaced with the NHS. Despite ours being better than elsewhere in these un-United Islands, it was portrayed as terrible. Expect more of the same, only worse.

    The biggest thing on our side at the moment is our sense of fair play. Thr Tories can do there best to pretent that 43.6 is bigger than 45 but they are fooling no one.

    • Jim on Sunday Politics from the Beeb in Jockland this morning a columnist from I think the Mail sat and said straight faced , the last poll didn’t look good for the separatists , oh dear lord above I guess she must have been out of the country on Friday morning as the results came in , Who or what does she suppose the SNP stand for , does she imagine voters stick a pin in the bloody ballot paper.

  26. Well I think that we better rest up from all of this and get ready for one almighty battle. The gloves are well and truly off now and the Tories WILL STOP AT NOTHING to destroy Nicola Sturgeon’s credibility through targeting all areas of her ”day job.” I don’t want to outline how far I think they’d go on here but don’t rule ANYTHING out.

    They’ve got hundreds of thousands of members of ”staff” to help them out, £billions at their disposal, including dark money donations, compared to the pittance that the SNP have, for example in the last two weeks in the run up to the election the Tories clawed in over £5 million in donations to the SNP’s £10,000. They’ve got the vast network of the British Establishment behind them, much of the Civil Service, the biased media and the use of psyops, etc, etc. Sad to say, imo, they’ve even got some Independence bloggers helping them out now too.

    And of course they’ve got Dominic Cummings and Isaac Levido standing in for LBJ’s solitary brain cell.

    It’s time for us all to pull together. Put any gripes that we may have (I have few) of the SNP behind us and focus on winning Indyref2.

  27. A couple of interesting articles.

    …”North Sea levies continued flowing south to London, resulting in a 300 billion pound bonanza for the U.K. Treasury.”

    Divide thay that by around 40 (years) and you get £7.5 billion. I reckon that there’s something wrong with that figure. The Norwegians have been making much more than that annually. In fact in one year alone, great year for them, they made £97.5 billion.

  28. The latest from James Kelly.

    ‘It’s a shame when someone opts out, but the rest of us have got our country’s freedom to win.’

  29. Of course, one problem with this debate is language. The definition of the word ‘Union’. For an objective person, the word suggests consent, fairness and equality. But for a British/English nationalist, it basically means Westminster owns Scotland and the will of the people is irrelevant.

    I can’t see anyway that the Johnson would allow another Indyref. When Cameron agreed to it, it looked like the No vote would spewing convincingly and he had an influential Labour Party to campaign for him. None of these things are true now. Plus the pro-union party must defend against the broken promises and the unpopularity of the PM.

    In reality, the only way to force the Independence (without an agreed) referendum, would be to make the next UK GE a pseudo independence election. In others words, just campaign outright for direct independence. If the SNP won over 50% of the seats and votes, then it would increase the pressure to allow at least a referendum, although even that is not certain.

    This is why the Johnson may not go too far, such as disband the Scottish parliament. If he goes too far, a 50% vote for direct independence in the next GE is possible. But of course, things can change in 5 years.

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