Dugcast – 10 January 2020

Welcome to the latest episode of the dugcast, and this week The National’s editor Callum Baird has torn himself away from his busy schedule so that I can interrupt him. This week we discuss rumblings within the Labour party that might point to a new attitude towards Scottish independence, Boris Johnson’s ludicrous claim that the UK is the most successful union in history, why it is that people in Scotland really don’t care about the royal family, tomorrow’s big indy march in Glasgow, and much more besides.

You can help to support this blog with a Paypal donation. Please log into Paypal.com and send a payment to the email address weegingerbook@yahoo.com. Or alternatively click the donate button. If you don’t have a Paypal account, just select “donate with card” after clicking the button.
Donate Button

If you have trouble using the button, or you prefer not to use Paypal, you can donate or purchase a t-shirt or map by making a payment directly into my bank account, or by sending a cheque or postal order. If you’d like to donate by one of these methods, please email me at weegingerbook@yahoo.com and I will send the necessary information.

Please also use this email address if you would like the dug and me to come along to your local group for a talk.

GINGER2croppedGaelic maps of Scotland are available for £15 each, plus £7 P&P within the UK for up to three maps. T-shirts are £12 each, and are available in small, medium, large, XL and XXL sizes. P&P is £5 for up to three t-shirts. My books, the Collected Yaps Vols 1 to 4 are available for £11 each. P&P is £4 for up to two books. Payment can be made via Paypal.

newbook My new book has just been published by Vagabond Voices. Containing the best articles from The National from 2016 to date. Weighing in at over 350 pages, this is the biggest and best anthology of Wee Gingerisms yet. This collection of pieces covers the increasingly demented Brexit years, and the continuing presence and strength of Scotland’s independence movement.

You can order the book directly from the publisher. Ordering directly means that postage is free. You can order here –

You can also order a book directly from me. The book costs £11.95 and P&P is an additional £3.50, making a total of £15.45. To order just make a Paypal payment to weegingerbook@yahoo.com, or alternatively use the DONATE button below. Please make sure to give me your postal address when ordering. Orders to be sent outwith the UK will incur extra postage costs, please email me for details. If you can’t use Paypal, or prefer an alternative payment method, please email weegingerbook@yahoo.com

46 thoughts on “Dugcast – 10 January 2020

  1. Pingback: Dugcast – 10 January 2020 | speymouth

  2. Sorry to hear it may be gingers last march tomorrow.

    With regards to British Labour in Scotland there can hardly have been a more treacherous party in Scotland so my message to them is still the same GIRUY.

    A proper Scottish Labour Party truly independent of London and minus some of the Britnat bampots I have no problem with.

    Three British parties and only two Scottish parties in a Scottish parliament presided over by a Britnat presiding officer is just not acceptable.

  3. Forget being pro-independence, even if the Scottish Labour party just stopped being quite SO rabidly anti-indy and just took a neutral “well it’s for the Scottish people to decide and we’ll let that play out and then see where we are from there” type of view that’d be something.

    But my suspicion is they only really are thinking along the lines of pretending to have some thoughts about their position on independence as an excuse to push the federalism guff again, no other reason. If that also happens to distract people from the business of considering proper independence then I suspect they’re not going to complain about that.

  4. Labour and self preservation. Self interest as usual. People will come over with a bit of persuasion. The best thing to do. The demographics are changing. Rapidly. Gathering pace.

    Imagining having a Sir as leader. Some people never learn.

    Why people who support Independence vote unionist is a mystery. Unionist Parties do not support Independence.

    Every unionists politician leader who does not support Independence does not last very long.

    • “Imagining having a Sir as leader. Some people never learn.”

      – You allude to the Lib Dems, too, Ken2. Consider that they’ve had Sir Menzies Campbell and Sir Vince Cable as Leaders, recently.

  5. Labours attitude to “solidarity” with England is a suicide pact. It is essentially saying “build the gallows high that we may hang together”. You see this socialist death cult attitude, when Ian Murray of Labour said he was happy Labour had destroyed itself to save the union. That it was not rewarded for saving the union, and was destroyed for it, has never sparked a single iota of awareness in Murray, or indeed anyone else in Scottish labour, that perhaps the union wasn’t worth saving.

    Will they realise this or are they going to make another announcement that federalism is the answer.

    I think we know what it will be.

    Labour should do Scotland a massive favour. Pack its bags and get its party out of Scotland. It has overstayed its welcome. It is not Scotland’s job or its moral duty, to provide the English left with a spine and a moral compass.

  6. Dear all,

    From Germany. The translation is via Google Translate (I don’t work in German) and I don’t know how accurate this is. But it is reported briefly in the Guardian, today as one brief paragraph as following:

    “Bradshaw told German newspaper Der Tagesspiegel: “The political class in England – and this includes my own party – must very quickly recognize the Scots’ right to self-determination”, which was then retweeted approvingly by Sturgeon.”

    Hopefully, AndyfromGermany or some other Germanophone will be able to tidy up the version presented here.

    All the best for today’s March!


    Great Britain is leaving the EU
    “Scotland becomes independent”

    Labour MP Ben Bradshaw sees upheavals in Britain in the face of Brexit. That affects your own party, but also Scotland. By Albrecht Meier

    The Labour Party suffered the most bitter defeat since 1935 in the British general election in December. Labour MP Ben Bradshaw managed to defend his constituency in Exeter, south-west England. Bradshaw believes that his party’s election slump is largely attributable to chairman Jeremy Corbyn. Before becoming a politician, Bradshaw became known as a journalist in the UK. For the BBC, he reported on the fall of the Berlin wall.

    Mr Bradshaw, how much do you hurt that Britain will leave the EU on January 31st?

    This is extremely painful not only for me, but for many here. I would even say that it is painful for the people who, according to opinion polls, do not want to leave the EU. The British majority voting system and the devastating failure of Labour leaders under Jeremy Corbyn have led to the conservative government led by Boris Johnson, despite just over 40 percent of the vote.

    But as lamentable as that is, we must now ensure that Brexit does as little damage as possible. The Labour Party will hopefully be a more effective opposition under previous leadership. The government will take revenge on the fact that numerous questions that have remained open since the EU referendum in 2016 must now be resolved very quickly.

    Johnson and the government will have to decide whether they want to reach an agreement with the EU or whether they want to forego a deal. The latter would ruin the UK economy and the inevitable disintegration of the UK. The government has shied away from deciding on this key issue in the past three and a half years. But now the Tories have to say how they imagine the future for the country.

    Scotland could leave the UK if Britain doesn’t stay close to the EU in the future?

    It will happen either way. I have no doubt that Scotland will become independent. It is completely unsustainable that the government in London denies the Scots the right to self-determination. The Scots expressed in the 2016 EU referendum and the two subsequent general elections that they do not want to leave the EU. It is important to understand that the UK is based on the consent of all parts of the country.

    The political class in England – and this includes my own party – must very quickly recognize the Scots’ right to self-determination. I am married to a Scotsman. All members of our family in Scotland voted against independence in the 2014 referendum. But at the last general election in December, all of them voted for the Scottish National Party for the first time in their lives. And they would now vote for Scotland’s independence differently than in 2014. Scotland will become independent. For me that is one hundred percent certain.

    We come to the future of your party. How do you rate the role of party leader Jeremy Corbyn?

    He is not only responsible for the crashing defeat of the Labour Party in December. It is also due to Jeremy Corbyn that the 2016 EU referendum was lost. In the middle of the referendum campaign, he took two weeks off on vacation. At the time, he was not fully committed to remaining in the EU. But that’s all yesterday’s snow.

    The reason why a lot of Labour Party people didn’t vote this time is because they didn’t trust Corbyn. There is no doubt about that. But under new leadership, we now have the opportunity to rebuild the party. We even have the chance to win the next election once it turns out that Brexit is not a success story at all.

    After the general election, there was criticism that the left Corbyn disciples in the momentum movement completely took over the Labour Party.

    That’s not correct. Jeremy Corbyn has twice won an in-party vote thanks to the support of party members. But I wouldn’t shove all the people who voted for him. It is true that the hard left has taken control of the party’s governing body. But the vast majority of the Labour House fraction is reasonable, and so is most of the Labour councillors in the country. So don’t underestimate the will of the party members, after four very painful defeats in a row, to put someone at the top who could actually win an election.

    They support the Brexit Labour spokesman Keir Starmer as successor to Jeremy Corbyn. Do you trust Starmer to become Prime Minister one day?

    It is possible. To put it bluntly, none of the other candidates running to succeed Corbyn has a chance of winning an election. If you talk to voters who did not vote for us this time, then no other name comes up than Keir Starmer’s when it comes to Corbyn’s successor.

    If we want to become an effective opposition force again, we must not ask ourselves who we prefer – but who the public prefers. Keir has what it takes to become prime minister. People can imagine him standing on the steps of Downing Street. He brings seriousness. His experience as a human rights lawyer and as director of the public prosecutor’s office, which he gathered before his work in the lower house, speaks for him. The Labour Party has always united broad sections of the population. Keir Starmer could restore this unit and overcome the trench warfare of recent years.

    Do you think it is conceivable that Britain will re-join the EU at some point in the future?

    Everything is possible. And in politics you should never say “never” anyway. Unfortunately, re-entry into the EU is not an issue in the short term. You just have to take note of the current facts in British politics. But once the difficult decisions that Brexit brings are on the agenda, the debate will change.

    That could eventually lead to full membership again.

    But perhaps the EU will also change in the near future in such a way that there will be a hard core around the euro countries and around them a ring of states with a looser connection. I could imagine, for example, that the United Kingdom could find a comfortable place in this outer group of states. To be more precise: England and Wales could find such a place because Scotland and Northern Ireland, together with Ireland, could be core Europe. But these are questions for the long-term future.

    Source: https://www.tagesspiegel.de/politik/grossbritannien-tritt-aus-der-eu-aus-schottland-wird-unabhaengig/25403664.html

    Der Tagesspiegel, 10.01.2020, 11:43 am

    Translation: Google Translate.

    • It was pretty much the same reported elsewhere WS, but it fairly well accords with continental opinion on the Scottish situation in any case. Europe is not bombarded with propaganda as in the UK, and have a variety of respected and non-partisan news outlets to inform.
      Judging by the number of foreign correspondent reporting on today’s march in Glasgow, the game is up for UK media syndication so far as Scotland in concerned.

      As to Bradshaw’s comments on change in Labour leader, Corbyn may have had all the charisma of a brick, but there is another coincidence he misses in comparisons between Brexit and this last GE which he cannot be aware of, a relentless political and media assault with a clear agenda.
      In Corbyn’s case, communist, antisemitic, fence-sitting, etc., it all hit it’s intended target, Labour voters, and they abstained in their droves. John Harris was bemused by how much lifelong Labour supporters had swallowed this prior to the election, one man does not a party make, but such is the personality manipulation game played.

      There is a lesson here for Independence, the London clique will pull out all the stops after two extensive and successful campaigns to get their way, Indy2 will be a monstrous fight which will eclipse 2014.
      It is no longer a case of whether Scotland can survive, or for that matter NI, Wales or even England, but whether the Eton set can….

  7. Spoke to a couple of your compatriots on the March earlier today. I was very impressed – they got on a bus at 3 am this morning to get to Glasgow from Wales.

    If there are lot more like them then Wales may beat us to independence.

    PS waiting to hear about my prize for finding you on the itinery. 😂

    • That would be colleagues from YES Cymru.

      Nothing stopping Scots from joining that as far as I understand. After all, I subscribe to YES Scotland as well.

      (Apologies for my absence, am gearing up for my own propogandising in Paris. Soon now.)

  8. My favourite moment today and biggest cheer was when someone walked in to the Clutha bar holding up a large sign saying FCUK BORIS JOHNSON.

    PS it wasn’t as windy or as wet as forecast – or is that just because weegies are used to a bit of wind and rain.

  9. It was a bit and windy. Trains from the north could not get through because of flooding. The passengers had to disembark 30 mins from Glasgow. Get off the train and find their own way to Glasgow. Taxi and local train (or bus?) to Glasgow. Totally missing the Rally end. It started earlier. It just shows it is better if it starts at a later time for people coming for afar.

    Maybe that accounts for fewer numbers. People put off because of the weather or not managing because of the disruption. Some people, who were not staying over night, would also possible have to have made their way back by bus instead of train.

    There was major disruption on the railways with trains being cancelled by flooding in the line. People did not realise how bad the weather was before setting off. Two days of rain and storm. Did not stop many people from attending. Just those disappointed to have missed the March end.

    It was really surprising to see the March being reported on BBC news. A change of direction. Something is changing. Looked great even though a few people were certainly suffering a dooking. Glasgow always looks great in any case, Quite impressing. Magnificent rally. Magnificent City even in the rain.

    • “It was really surprising to see the March being reported on BBC news” – As much a surprise to them after keeping a lid on it for so long, but they’ve now lost control over Scot’s Indy news with STV cameras, foreign correspondents, etc. all over the place, it showed after the Edinburgh march there was considerable worldwide interest, even in Bolivia FFS…

      Despite trains and ferries cancelled on top of foul weather it was a stunning turnout for which all should be justifiably proud, and in particular the AUOB organisers and marshalls who made it all work., and the innumerable posters on YouTube who put the lie to “There is no appetite for another referendum….”

  10. Re the latest Labour Scotland rethink…
    Tories or Labour launching an entirely separate Scottish party may be welcome to some, to many more it will seen as opportunistic rebranding of a product far beyond it’s sell-by date, same parasites, different address?
    Eg – Labour hypocrisy created the GCC fiasco, yet they doubled down in agitating for faster SNP led response to remedy what was deliberately abused on THEIR watch against all THEIR principles. A grovelling apology would have been more honest, but no, we’re away to have a another think…
    More recently, there was the Sarwar/BBCS campaign over the QEUH child death “scandal”, which finally laid bare the insidious relationship between media and UK parties with one target, SNP.
    But Labour are not alone – Glenn Campbell’s “we seek him here we seek him there” theatrics over Hanvey in the midst of an election on the Tory “anti-Semitism” theme was another blatant concoction, sudden silence once elected. Never quite been so proud of Fifers sticking two fingers up to a stitch-up between Tory manipulators and a corrupt media.
    The truth takes a back seat when all that matters is to WIN, and the Union rewards winners, whether Labour or Tory.

    BBCS and Labour and the Tories have put their own continuance before the welfare of the people of Scotland by perpetuating lies, safe in the knowledge they are untouchable. Really?
    We have a referendum to hold and a nation to rebuild, and however much conscience may forgive slights of the past, remember the bastards names, and give them p45s…

    • My view is that no person who stood as a Brit Nat MP or MSP should be allowed to stand in any post indy election to Holyrood as they had previously fought against indy and our parliament on the behest of their English party masters. No hypocrite allowed.

  11. Just as Scotland’s talent gets drained from Scotland, Labour’s talent (what little they have) would get pulled to Westminster. The money is nicer, and there’s not all those bothersome constituency voters there (London MPs aside).

    Having said that, the so-called cream of the crop was Gordon Brown, followed by Douglas Alexander, Alistair Darling, Jim Murphy, and so on.

    Just like neeps, they were outstanding in their field, but the Labour Party was a small field.

  12. The benefits of a later starting time.

    The rain would have been have decreased. The weather conditions would be better. More people from afar could have attended. Get there in time because of longer journeys.

    The numbers would have been up.

    The numbers attending are misquoted. They do not give consideration to the numbers dipping out and in of the March.

    Some people do not do the whole route because of other considerations or being less able. Including these people the numbers calculated would be up. The March is not static from start to finish. It is evolving as it progresses. The quoted numbers do not take consideration of these conditions. Always underquoted.

  13. So on bbc Scotland this morning brewer asks the SoS for Scotland or whitshisname when Scotland would be able to have a reverendum. 2021 SCOTTISH ELECTIONS he states at first but we will ignore it because SNP needs a majority (links with other parties is not enough) then he states that it would be beyond this time ie after the First Minister or predecessor has served their time. We are being told that we are to have an election next year but will ignore the democratic will of the people.
    What a democratic outrage.

    Iran, Russia will be proud of the tories

    Can I have a badge please ‘democracy ignored here”

    • Och, Hamish, the Brewdog was up to his usual tricks, pushing for the Indyref can to be kicked into the long grass of May 2021, and he obligingly fed the Grand Blue Tory Panjandrum his lines.
      Even if every person in Scotland voted SNP next year, the occupying forces of the Englaih empire Up Here would say No.
      When will the message finally get through to some folk?
      We are an exploited colony of England. To follow it to its logical conclusion, wealthy huntin’ and shootin’ farmers rule over us, no matter how e Scots vote?
      He had a nothing piece on Police Scotland and a wee dig at Sturgeon and Performance indicators in an aside on closing the attainment gap, and health data, then Gina Davidson of the Scotsman and Toodle Oo The Noo’s ‘chum’ Sevvie Carrell of the Guardian waffling away about nothing we didn’t already know; they keep pushing this tosh about nothing happening this year ‘cos the Tories say No.
      Well have they got another think coming.
      Andrew Marr’s wee show is a pointless broadcast as far as Scots are concerned.
      If I hear any more mindless nonsense about the royals….
      Brewer and Marr…sell outs…Scotland deniers..for dosh.
      There’s name for that type of individual.
      ‘For the absence of any doubt’, Brewdog, we ain’t sitting on our hands until May 2021.
      They are about to close Scotland off from the rest of Europe in 19 days time. And you lot seem quite happy to act as cheerleaders.
      Have you no shame.

  14. According to scuttlebut – Labour in Scotland has shelved (abstained) on having a special conference on its position re: Indyref 2. I suspect UK Labour voting against surrendering Scottish powers back to Scotland last week, may have all but rendered any plans they had moot. Very hard to argue for a federalism fairy, when your party bosses did something so stupid, that it would make you look stupid if you went ahead and called for it.

    • David, the online Scotland on Sunday’s headline is Ian Davidson declaring that he is not a Blairite, as he pitches to become Deputy Leader of the Red Tories, with an accompanying picture of the Hopeful shaking a constituent’s hand at the fabled ‘doorstep’.
      The good ladies of Morningside would not have voted him back in if he weren’t a Tory Blair Red Tory.
      He’s a fuckin’ Tory! (Excusez mon Francais).
      He is now rarer than pandas in Scotland, and has no chance of English Labour backing him to ride shotgun for the next ‘Labour’ Leader.
      He must be pinching himself. Surely he cannot believe his luck? Five more years in opposition, with nought to do. He was given the Black Spot by Corbyn, and spends his time sitting on Select Committees coining it in.
      He seems to spend a lot a time at local fairs and galas, smiling for the cameras. And that’s about it.
      That Richard Leonard is holding on to his big fat pay packet after the car crash in December speaks volumes for Labour in Scotland.
      They have no shame.
      Still, he’ll be welcome back into the Union Fold when Anas takes over…
      These Brit Nat ‘politicians’ are like bookies…you never see a poor one.

      In my 72 years I have never seen such a pile of dross rep[resenting the Labour Party in Scotland.

      • Jack, I think you mean Ian Murray – Ian “Bayonet the Wounded” Davidson didn’t get in.

        But its that lack of awareness in labour that still astounds me. Murray proudly boasted that it was right, that Scottish labour was destroyed defending the union. It hasn’t dawned on him that his party wasn’t rewarded for saving the union…it was destroyed and he its one and only MP. Where did he think those voters went? Did they go to the tories? The Lib Dems? No. They went to the SNP. Three successive defeats. Murray propped up by tory voters.

        You’d think that someone might think, who were these people that were voting for us all this time?
        That labour used to call itself the party of Home Rule in Scotland, might have been a clue. But no. Mr Murray’s big plan according to Labour Hame is copy the far right populist tactics of Boris Johnson. Labour, according to Murray, should learn from this far right movement in England and also (permission to giggle) “Build on His (Murray) experiences of building broad coalitions of support” He did then throw in some guff about inclusive policies. Because, you know, you never go full retard.

        The only experience he has is, as you said, coining it in on select committees.

        He’s a shill. Like the rest of them.

        Sadly we are going to have to devote time and energy to dismantling this crooked little council of spivs, instead of concentrating on the tories.

        • Now there’s a blast from the past Freudian slip, David.
          I had the main Red Tories as a bloc in mind, the ‘f***ing Useless 41’ when I clacked this off earlier.
          Just think of the list of Murray’s ex colleagues and where they are now. Douglas Alexander, Ian ‘bayonet the wounded’ Davidson, Jim Murphy, Brian Wilson, John Reid George Robertson, Alistair Darling,and the Clunking Fist himself, ‘Hen’ Broon.
          They’re all very well off, no?
          And Murray is declaring himself a non Blairite now? Aye, richt.
          I need to edit when I’m raging.
          Brewer is a disgrace now. A half hour of Brit Nattery and slagging of us Yessers unchallenged.
          BBC North Korea?

          • Don’t forget Tom Harris ex Labour MP who not only voted for the Tories but told everyone else to vote for Boris as if they are buddies.

            Red Tories – no doubt about it.

          • Cubby, he is now a regular on BBC Scotland and has reinvented himself as a PR Consultant and journalist, and a pundit on everything from new cinema releases to recycling plastic; and we are paying his wages.
            It is unthinkable that a Labour Politician would urge the electorate to vote Tory, but Harris did, as did Dugdale before him.
            Who can forget Mags Curran’s Better Together jig during Indyref1.
            It heralded in 7 more years of massive cuts and poverty, yet her feckin’ Union was saved.
            I’ll stop now.
            They have ensure a Blue Tory Government ‘down there’ for 10, probably 15 more gut wrenching years.
            These people are beyond comment.
            Not one of them will worry about where the money’s coming to pay for food or heat.
            Perhaps the Monica Lennons and the Iain Grays of the Red Planet should reflect on this.
            Socialists? My arse.

      • Yet to see any of the Britnat media ask the jumpy man Leonard why he is not resigning following the election last month. How bad does it have to get for Britnat Labour in Scotland before he resigns.

        Britnat Labour in Scotland the most treacherous political party ever to pitch up in Scotland or as they would say “up there”.

        • You don’t have to quit when you know you are just room meat. Look at any unionist mp, map, map or councillor. Stay put. Make up the numbers. Keep your mouth shut and get paid.


    Anti democratic fascists. Britnats.

    Alister Jack Tory MP Secretary of State for Scotland just exploded the previous myth that if the SNP got a majority in the 2021 Scot parliament elections that would be a mandate for Indyref2. So the policy of kicking the can down the road is no more. The Tory policy is you aint ever ever getting a referendum no matter how you vote.

    He now states that no vote in Scotland would ever be a mandate for indyref2 on Politics Scotland this morning. That is the words of an anti democratic fascist. Any normal politics programme in a normal democratic country the interviewer would be outraged by this statement but not in the world of propaganda Quay. Let’s move on now says Brewer to Boris Johnson’s spending.

    Do these people in Propaganda Quay ever listen to themselves.

    The Tory Secretary of State for Scotland announces on TV that democracy in Scotland is finished. Troubled times lie ahead for Scotland.

    • As I observe, Cubby, Brewer merely summarises Jack’s NO for him, then moves on.
      He should have been challenging this Johnny Come Lately on democratic principles alone. Instead he merely reiterates this fascist nonsense for those in the audience who might not have got the message: Scotland you are under House Arrest for ever.
      Pacific Quay is a poisonous propaganda unit for the Elite now.
      And we are paying their wages.
      What happened to journalism in Scotland?
      Or did they all come out the womb singing ‘Land of Hope and Glory’?

      It is beyond sinister that every aspect of control of life in Scotland is in the hands of Brit Nats answerable to London and the Oligarchy.

  16. Cubby,

    You said it better !

    What will Liberal Democrat’s do? What will Labour do? Agree with their Tory imperialist masters?

    Can I ask the presiding officer?

    • Hamish 100, I saw you had already posted on this matter but I thought it was so important that it needed repeating. We have politicians who feel it is ok to say on TV to the people of Scotland that it does not matter what we vote now or in the future – you aint getting a referendum – not neverendum just never.

      Jack just went further than his previous comment that the UK is not a voluntary union. He says it is a undemocratic prison.

      Do the people who vote for these Tories realise what some of them like Jack really are – fascists.

      Liberal Democrats – what a joke calling themselves democrats.

  17. Politics Scotland = The Britnat Chat show.

    80% of Scottish MPs are SNP. The SNP are the party of government in Scotland. Thousands marching in Glasgow for Indyref2 and independence.

    How does Politics Scotland represent this situation this morning.

    Politics Scotland has a Tory MP Jack and a couple of Britnat journalists from the Guardian and the Times on its programme and no film of the march in Glasgow on Propaganda Quay’s own doorstep.

  18. Ian Murray was brave enough to say it in parliament. Talked about the stability and growth pact when you sign up to the single market.

    So fair play to him.

    Then the liberals of the Indy movement started shouting Croatia at him.

    It was hilarious. Croatia shows exactly where the liberals are taking Scotland. Up the garden path.

    Nobody has the courage to debate it.

    It is Indy at all costs and then get trapped strategy and once everyone figures out what has happened it will be too late.


    A very sad state of affairs indeed. Especially when the currency experts within the Indy movement refuse to tell the truth. 90% of Indy voters do not know how it will actually work in reality.

    Who can blame them for voting against their own best interest as an independent nation. When the topic is kept in the dark by the middle class metropolitan liberals who now run the SNP.

    Why they make a complete fool of themselves shouting Croatia at Murray. I bet They have never studied the government accounts once in their life. 15 minute sound bites repeated ad nasuem is how They build up their cognitive dissonance.

    They should join the Lib Dems where they belong. If they want Brussels to run us instead of London.

    A third of voters in Scotland have wanted to keep the EU at arms length ever since the Maastricht and Lisbon treaties. That changed the treaty of Rome forever.

    They Will never support the faux independence on offer. They recognise the ” double out ” out of the UK and the EU is the only true independence on the table.

    It is time others in the Indy movement recognised that simple truth also. Or they are going to get the blame for trapping Scotland in a fiscal prison.

    When the SNP refuse to debate the issue. All it does is replace thousands of people who have wanted Indy all their lives into supporting the union. As being at the heart of Europe is the worst choice on offer. Devo max is even better than being at the heart of Europe. That is how bad the choice of being at the heart of Europe is.

    If they do not listen. These fools have to be stopped. Unionists and Indy voters who understood Maastricht and Lisbon have to unite and stop this train wreck.

    Save these middle class metropolitan liberals from themselves and save the people of Scotland from making a HUGE mistake.

    • ‘Simple’, yes, Derek, ‘Truth’? Not so much.
      AUOB does what it says on the tin.
      Independence first, then a government for the people, of the people, and accountable to the people of Scotland.
      Good try, no cigar.

      • If only !!!!

        I wish you were right.That I would support.

        Unfortunately, The SNP are going to ride rough shod right over the top of you.

        It will go to a vote at conference. A room full of people who think we are still joined to the treaty of Rome.

        It will win by a landslide.

        Job done and then we are trapped.

        The growth commission was the federal, neoliberal globalist blue print to get it done.

        They will fudge it to push it through.

        I have heard nothing to the contrary. Nothing at all and they refuse to accept the votes at the last conference. They are trying to fudge those.

        They are selling you a bridge. Do not buy it at any cost.

        Ask yourself, why are those people who know how it works keeping quiet ?

        Because true independence the double out will not win at the moment. It would if they talked about it but refuse to do so.

        Nobody is highlighting these real dangers to Scottish voters.

    • Pretty sick of people who at first claim to be independence supporters then come up with a reason for not wanting independence and trying to convince others not to go for independence.

      I guess that includes you Derek Henry.

  19. When you look at Croatia the same thing plays out throughout the EU.


    Since they run a trade deficit. The Budget deficit = the private sector surplus to the penny.

    When they joined Croatian households and businesses shared a 5.3% surplus.

    Now they are in deficit. Their savings are being destroyed. The surplus has been replaced by a deficit.

    The Budget surplus = The private sector deficit to the penny.

    What the means is Croatian households and business are now in aggregate spending more than their income and more are forced to take out loans. Private sector debt the debt that really matters.

    Which is the whole point of neoliberal globalism. EU central. Federal Europe madness.

    If the budget position does not start running larger budget deficits. Savings will continue to be slashed, loans on top of more loans. Unemployment will rise until their is a crises.

    Wouldn’t surprise me one but if these things are showing up in the real data already. Rising loans and falling savings.

    The IMF love a crises they have caused.

    Then the IMF will move in privatise Croatia selling off anything that isn’t nailed down. Destroy safe guards and red tape and London, Frankfurt and Walk street will do the rest.I

    Attack pensions to bring the debt to GDP ratio below 60%.

    Growing the economy in the back of private debt – sound familiar anyone ?

    Prof Steve Keen and prof Michael Hudson have made careers describing this process as it plays out.

    MMT economists have been exposing it since 1990′ s.

    Scottish voters can’t even see it. They think the heart of Europe is going to save them. They think it is still the treaty of Rome.

    Tragic 🙁

    The fools Point to Croatia as a country who joined the EU with a deficit of 5.3% of GDP. With its own currency as if it was a successful blue print for Scotland.

    Because the truth and the issues are not allowed to be debated. Unless, you send a letter to the national.

    It has to stay in the dark. Must stay in the dark before Scottish voters wake up.

    I will ask one of these world rebound economists to write about Croatia. That shows the Indy movement should never use Croatia if they are talking about independence.

    The stability and growth pact ( oxymoron ) is anything but independence.

    It serves these people and only these people


    • Unfortunately, you do not get it at all.

      That’s the problem Jack.

      I didn’t say it. It was Indy voters when they attacked Murray with Croatia who was brave enough to tell the truth.

      I have no time for Murray but this will not go away. They see the weakness in the SNP arguement and going for the jugular.

      They are right to do so. I hope they succeed.

      If we sign up to the single market. Scotland will get one of these letters Jack….


      Is that the independence we all wanted Jack ?

      Of course not. Far from it.

      Heart of Europe will be the biggest mistake since keep the £.

      I hope you are right when you say

      ” Independence first, then a government for the people, of the people, and accountable to the people of Scotland. ”

      But, I very much doubt that is going to happen. The SNP are selling the opposite to that.

      Radical Indy are the only ones who have told the truth. Once the SNP get their votes they will be ignored.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published.