We’re on our way

There are few things more amusing than reading the comments of British nationalists on social media when there has been an opinion poll showing majority support for independence. It was not too long ago, when opposition to independence was usually in the lead, that those same British nationalists were constantly bandying about the results from those very same polling companies that they’re now desperate to discredit.

Today’s outburst of hysterical denial has been prompted by an opinion poll carried out by Panelbase for Business for Scotland. It shows that support for independence is now at the 54% mark, a rise of 2% on the previous Panelbase poll. This is that highest support for independence asking the standard question has been for years. It comes following a series of opinion polls which have given independence a lead. Today’s poll is the fifth poll this year from Panelbase, all but one of which has put independence in the lead, and that exception put support for independence at 49%. Moreover, and more worryingly for the British nationalists, when don’t knows are included today’s new poll breaks as follows: Yes 50%, No 43%, Don’t Know 7%. This is a result which is well outside the usual 3% margin of error in opinion polls.

We can now be confident that we are living in a Scotland where there is majority support for independence, and moreover a Scotland where support for independence is well on the way to becoming the settled will of the people of Scotland. The longer that this pattern becomes established, the more likely it becomes that undecided voters will break for yes. The days when there were large majorities in Scotland against independence are long gone and likely never to return. So how are all those SNPbad stories in the media working out for the British nationalists?

Naturally, not everyone is happy about the idea of a Scotland where there is consistently majority support for independence. The denial is strong. There is a great disturbance in the yoonstream on social media. The same people who hail the skewed question from Scotland in Union polls as conclusively demonstrating there’s no appetite for independence are rejecting this poll claiming that it is a leading question. You know, asking people “Should Scotland be an independent country?” is a leading question because it seeks a yes response for independence. Funny how they didn’t consider it a leading question on 19 September 2014.

Details of the poll were first published in The National before being picked up by the rest of the media. There are a number of British nationalist idiots on Twitter who professes themselves to be greatly relieved by this poll result, believing it to be a poll of just National readers and imagining that if only 54% of readers of a pro-independence newspaper support independence then the cause of independence is dead. That’s the special kind of stupid that you get when you believe that the human rights of a statue are more worthy of protection than the actual human rights of living breathing human beings.

Others of the staunch persuasion are smugly insisting that it’s only a poll and since not ever voter in Scotland was asked then it’s meaningless. Every time there’s an opinion poll which delivers a result that isn’t to someone’s liking, you get clowns on social media popping up to insist that the result counts for nothing because they hadn’t been asked the question. Then there are those who scoff that only 1078 people were asked so that means that just 578 people want independence. Then there’s people like the British nationalist called Theresa who complained on Twitter that no one in her family has ever been asked the question, so she refuses to believe the result of this poll.  How do you solve a problem like Theresa?  Well you don’t.  There’s no cure for stupid.

Some people are in for a very big disappointment, or at least they would be if they had the intellectual capacity to grasp how opinion polls work. Gosh, if only there was some way of ensuring that everyone in Scotland could answer a question on whether they wanted independence, you know, maybe by some sort of ballot. We could call it a referendum.

Asking 1000 people is standard in opinion polling. It’s basic statistics. As long as your sample of 1000 people is correctly weighted to ensure that it’s representative of the larger population, 1000 people is all you need to give an accurate picture of what’s going on – with a confidence level of 95% and with a margin of error of 3%. That means that 19 times out of 20 you’ll get an accurate result which is within 3% either way of what is actually going on in the population. In the case of this latest poll, it’s in line with previous polling, so it’s unlikely to be an outlier. If there had been a series of polls showing independence between 50% and 52% and suddenly we got a poll putting independence on 40% or on 60%, then we’d suspect it was perhaps an outlier. That’s not the result in this latest poll, meaning that we can be more confident that it reflects reality accurately.

Increasing the confidence level and decreasing the margin of error significantly means asking hundreds of thousands of people – which isn’t feasible for an opinion poll. It’s not a simple matter that asking 2000 people in a poll makes it twice as accurate as a poll of 1000. In fact if the 2000 people asked don’t represent a balanced and representative sample, the result is less reliable than that of a properly weighted poll of 1000 people. This is why online opinion polls on platforms like Twitter where 30,000 or more people have responded are less accurate than a properly weighted opinion poll of 1000 people. If you want to read more about this, there’s a useful explanation of how polling works here https://people.howstuffworks.com/political-polling.htm

To those who bewail the fact that support for independence is not even higher, I would simply point out that a rapid shift of public opinion in favour of independence could just as easily be followed by a rapid shift of public opinion in the other direction. Instead what we are seeing is the slow and steady progress of the independence movement to building solid and secure support for independence in Scotland. We are moving in the right direction, and we will have solid and secure foundations from which to launch our campaign in the independence vote when it comes – as it most assuredly will.

We now have 54% in support of independence despite the fact that with the exception of The National, the entire Scottish media is hostile. That’s impressive. It’s even more impressive when you consider that the Scottish Government has given up on campaigning for independence for the duration of the current crisis. When we are able to resume campaigning properly, nothing will be able to stop us.

All that British nationalists have left is the comfort of ignorance. They were convinced that Brexit was going to destroy the independence movement. They were wrong. They were convinced that the Alex Salmond trial was going to destroy the independence movement. They were wrong. They were convinced that the covid-19 epidemic was going to destroy the independence movement. They were wrong. Instead what we see is a gradual and steady increase in support for independence. British nationalism is on the wrong side of history, with nothing left but its statues commemorating oppressors, slavers, and colonialists.


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59 thoughts on “We’re on our way

  1. The polls have been consistant and make for comfortable reading for those of us who support Independence being built on a solid foundation that takes the majority of the country with us because it’s also their opinion too, whether they have come to this decision late or changed their minds from previously voting NO

    The guts and glory brigade who’ve been demanding referendums every five minutes since the day after 2014 and blaming the current FM for not taking the same guts or glory action by having referendums but having no clue as to whether we would win or not are still complaining, and it begs the question of all of these folk, do you want to win by an uncontestable margin or just throw the dice and possibly be yet another glorious failure or do you want to be certain

    Personally I want to win by more than we lost the last time so there can be no doubt no question no argument and I believe our current FM thinks the same way, there’s no point in winning by a tiny odd few votes because that’ll cause as much trouble all over again as it won’t be taking the country with us creating a big mess

    Our numbers are constant and rising and that’s the way forward to a country where a democratic majority of the people want the same thing so we don’t suffer from disunity after we’ve chosen the path we’re taking

    It’s up to our leaders and their analysis of our country and their position as how best to move forward now and my guess is once this Corona crisis is under control we’ll be hearing more about that in the coming months, because I don’t think it’ll be years due to the Holyrood elections just around the corner and anyway I’ve returned my raffle ticket stubs fully sold because I liked the idea of winning cash this year instead of a car, I’ve got one of those so money’s good for me and the profit goes into the ring fenced referendum pot which don’t let the grumblers kid you doesn’t exist, it most certainly does and they’re telling big fat fibs saying it doesn’t

  2. Read the good news this morning in the National. Fair chuffed. I know two strong Union supporters who will be in denial once the get the information next week.
    Now we just need a campaign (hard with Covid19) and a referendum.

    Thanks for your explanation Paul.

  3. Here,Hear Paul, great news, in a month or so when it becomes a certainty that we are heading for a no deal Brexit, the yes vote will jump to 60%.Then will be the time for Nicola go for it.

  4. Pingback: We’re on our way | speymouth

  5. Agree wholeheartedly and further to Dr Jim’s comments its just a pity some of the bloods and guts brigade on another channel can only see gloom and doom with calls for the FM to stand down.

    Yip, astoundingly stupid.

    Of course some are unionists pretending to be supporters of independence.

    Just sad that some of the I hate Nicola Sturgeon brigade don’t see this or don’t want too.

    Still for the rest of us we should start to plan for the election and how we get the undecideds on our side.

  6. This mornings BBC radio Scotland’s paper review excluded the National – must have been the results of this poll – absolute disgrace but of course not a surprise .

  7. Good news indeed. You can also see the general trend of Indy support over the past 20 years or so of polls, and see the green bit rise above the 50% line (the most recent poll does appear, but it’s a sliver at present).

    https://i.ibb.co/yWvQGwG/Aye-Naw.png

    That’s a definite solidifying of the Yes vote; not dropping below 45% since 2018. One caveat. Polls with non-standard questions omitted (e.g. Scotland in Union polls, which tend to add 5% to Naw and take 5% from Aye).

  8. Shoulders to the boulder lassies and lads. We only have to move this monstrosity a few centimetres at a time. Mind your back because you’ll need it fur the rebuilding work. Easy does it. We just need to edge it to that wee slope ower there and it’ll run doon tae the sea and sink withoot trace like a slaver’s statue.

    Plenty time, there’s mair arriving by the day and I fancy that they ken fine whit they’re here fur. Patience noo and be civil.

  9. A couple of interesting little takes. 8% of SNP voters think Scotland shouldn’t be an independent country. You have to ask why? And once again, old gits like me vote against independence, overall. The yes/no breakdown being 41/59%. Has anything made a dent in that conservative (without a capital C) opinion?

  10. Only 43% of voters in Scotland want to remain in a Union with England, that says an awful lot when 50% of voters wish for Scotland to become an Independent country. The writing is surely on the wall now.

  11. You write: “That’s impressive. It’s even more impressive when you consider that the Scottish Government has given up on campaigning for independence for the duration of the current crisis. When we are able to resume campaigning properly, nothing will be able to stop us.”

    It is arguable that the ‘Scottish Government’ hasn’t been campaigning – or not much – for independence for a lot longer than the current crisis! So yes, it is ‘impressive’ even if the glacial pace of change is dispiriting at times.

  12. The media isn’t just hostile, it is also biased. And YES still leads.

    Thing is, in a referendum situation, the media is required to “be neutral”.
    We saw the bias of the BBC in the last week of 2014. That cannot be allowed again, next time.

  13. Thanks for your latest article, Paul, and yes ”WE’RE ON THE WAY” right enough (YEEHA) and there will be no stopping us when we eventually get out there and take to the streets: Burst the myths and enlighten those who have been hoodwinked by the British establishment.

    Support is rising no doubt due to the MSM being unable to gag Nicola Sturgeon (as was the norm) during this crisis. The public, in the main, trust her to do her best for Scotland and will no doubt trust her when she makes her case for Independence. Add to that the SNP sending an independence prospectus to every household in Scotland (two and a half million) and the informative WBB going to over a million homes. And while we’re still stuck at home get the info out there, online, consider buying the Business for Scotland ‘The Brief’ and support the National newspaper and of course this site.

    http://www.businessforscotland.com/shop/

    We could also consider carrying placards and banners on the AUOB marches home made or supplied by people like Indyposterboy.

    https://indyposterboy.scot/

    Next time round will probably be our last shot at this, for a number of reasons, so let’s just do it. WIN IT.

    …………………………………

    ”Then there’s people like the British nationalist called Theresa who complained on Twitter that no one in her family has ever been asked the question, so she refuses to believe the result of this poll.”

    If Theresa is reading this, lol, I’d like to inform her that I have never ever been contacted by a polling company and neither has my many Independence supporting relatives and friends.

    • Which whole Nation is he referring to
      And once again we hear the problem from their own mouths, we’re all one until we’re not, we’re all equal until we’re outvoted ten to one, Scotlands decision will affect others, well michty me that never bothered them as long as it was their decisions and sod the rest of us
      Please consider us the man says, oh well dearie me didn’t Scotland ask them to do that and they told us to get stuffed

  14. In 2014 Westminster were allowed to interfere in Scotlands referendum, my understanding of referendum rules by the UN is there should have been no interference from the state Union or country being seceded from and that any opposition to the Independence proposal must come only from within the country holding the referendum, that was never done, you will all recall that the EU did not once interfere in the Brexit referendum, all comments from the EU were non partisan

    The BBC and other media were also allowed to run the televised debates to their timetable, this also should have been stopped in its tracks as the BBC is an organ of the British state and paid by the British state so impartiality in this case is a nonsense, that was never done

    All media and rules of conduct should have been overseen by Independent third party observers and adjudicated by those Independent observers, that was never done
    Scotland was royally screwed by its own lack of objections to Westminsters interference, that was never done

    Postal voting was yet another area of suspicion, anyone would have to think Scotland was the sickest nation on the face of the earth at the overwhelming amount of postal voting that happened, postal voting must be overseen properly in order to avoid the obvious discrepancies it threw up, that was never done

    If we’re going to win this thing we must make 100% certain all referendum rules are adhered to

    This must be done

    Any referendum is for the people of Scotland to decide without fear favour or coercion from outside sources, and if found guilty of such interference should lose by default and a decision to rerun or sanction the interfering parties decided by the impartial observers appointed by the UN

    Scotland must have legality not the 2014 UK rule fudge they got away with last time

  15. I’ve lost a post Paul maybe in your spam folder again unless I said something I shouldn’t have in which case apologies

  16. I know someone will have the answer to this as there must be one, it’s just I don’t know what it is.

    But if Westminster just keeps saying no to another referendum, and Nicola will only move forward unless a ‘Section 30’ is granted by Westminster, how is it possible for Scotland to have another vote?

    • There’s the possibility of legally testing a referendum without a section 30 order. There are good legal arguments that it could be perfectly legal for Holyrood to hold a consultative referendum without a Section 30 order. That was Alex Salmond’s intention had David Cameron not agreed to the Section 30 order.

      If that proves not to be possible, then any election in Scotland can be turned into a de facto referendum on independence – a plebiscite election. That’s definitely legal and doesn’t require the approval of Westminster.

  17. The First Minister will *move* when the people of Scotland are ready and when she can win, she has stated this countless times, some folk decide not to listen or read and sell their psychic predictions of what she’s thinking for their own reasons, what’s worse is people buy it

  18. This academic paper was published six months before the 2014 referendum, “The Scottish Independence Referendum in an International Context” written by:

    Jure Vidmar, a Professor of Public International Law in the Faculty of Law at Maastricht University and published in the Canadian Yearbook of International Law. A country where Independence referendums are followed closely

    https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2410255

    If you want to understand how difficult it is to win Independence by democratic means that you might like to read this paper.

    The most interesting example given is that of Montenegro who gained Independence in 2006. The EU actually stepped in and stated that for the result to be recognised the Yes side had to win 55% of the vote.

    Well worth a read, here’s a short section, skip right past if this is not your thing.

    Outside of the 1991–92 “Yugoslav independence package,” Montenegro opted for independence in 2006. Unlike the referenda held in the context of the dissolution of the SFRY, the referendum in Montenegro was legally binding and triggered a constitutional formula for secession.

    It was also an exception with regard to the prescribed majority. The opinion polls were suggesting a fifty-fifty split between the “unionists” and the “secessionists.” Given the recent history of armed conflict in the area as well as the proximity of Kosovo, which had not declared independence at the time, the EU feared a potential outburst of violence and a spill-over effect if Montenegro declared independence with virtually half of its population opposing this move.
    The “unionists” were also threatening a boycott of the referendum. This move would further delegitimize the vote.

    In response, the EU imposed the Act on Referendum on State-Legal Status of the Republic of Montenegro (Independence Referendum Act), which prescribed a minimum turnout and a higher burden on the “secessionists.” Under this formula, the constitutionally entrenched mechanism for secession would be triggered by 55 percent of all votes being cast for secession, with a turnout of at least 50 percent plus one of eligible voters.

    Such a majority was designed to give the “unionists” a reasonable hope of winning the referendum and thus averted their boycott. Greater legitimacy was also achieved by avoiding the prospect of Montenegro becoming independent by a close 50 percent vote. Independence was in the end supported by a narrow margin of 55.53 percent of all votes cast with a turnout of 86.49 percent of all those eligible to vote.

    The barely achieved threshold has been described as a political gamble, as it was quite possible that the result could have fallen in the “grey zone” between 50 and 55 percent. In such a circumstance, Montenegro’s government would have been legally unable to declare independence.

    At the same time it would have viewed the referendum result as a mandate to further weaken the State Union. The unionists would have viewed the result as a victory and demanded immediate parliamentary elections and closer ties with Belgrade.

      • The precedent is already set for referendum margins within the UK, the UK were the ones to set them when they declared that anything over 50% was a massive victory and confirmation the nation wanted nay demanded Brexit, remember they said 52% to 48% was overwhelming justification to unjustly remove Scotlands 62% votes as not worth anything
        Scotland would obviously prefer to win a referendum by much more because a small margin causes ongoing trouble but nonetheless in the end a win is a win

        • Of course Dr Jim, I’m not comparing the Montenegro situation and the requirement for a 55% majority with Scotlands, what I’m hoping to point out is that it isn’t easy to become Independent with a simple majority vote. The ruling state will almost always put obstacles in your way.

          You would need to read the paper, if you haven’t already, to know where I’m coming from. I was trying to give a flavour of what it was about for those who may be interested in reading some more.

          The Prof that wrote it didn’t quite call the 2014 referendum the “gold standard” but he did describe it as “unique”.

        • And from there you can begin to see the complexities surrounding a Section 30 order and any agreement pre-referendum with Westminster. Even a won referendum does not automatically confer legitimacy to Independence according to the Prof.

          • If you really want to consider a victory is a victory is a victory – hearken back to the 1997 Referendum vote on Devolution for the establishment of what was the National Assembly for Wales.

            On a turnout of 50.22%, barely 50.3% voted YES (a majority of 6 721 votes). The country was split 11:11 with regards to local authorities Yes:No Now, initially there was some grumblings from the No camp for a re-run, but eventually the conceded to the National Assembly. And look art us now – with a legislative Parliament and a growing number for independence.

            Now, I grant you, going that extra mile and becoming fully independent (in Wales’s or Scotland’s case) is a bigger step than that we had to make in 1997 (although the swing from No in 1979 was 40%+) but I would (and do) argue that a win is a win is a win. It might be more difficult (at least initially) to get disgruntled Noes on-board, but I’m sure it can be done – given time. And don’t forget, ‘Westminster and all the UK Establishment politicos’ accepted our result as a template for future such victories.

            Yours, Dros Gymru / For Scotland,

          • Well, I flatly disagree on three counts.

            Firstly, the UK is not (the heavily-armed camp) Serbia+Montenegro, even with the BritNat blackshirts in desperation trying to “up the ante” here at the moment in a pathetic attempt to make it so. But arguments like this do give them quite unneeded encouragement to try.

            Secondly, the EU undoubtedly had well-known internal sympathies with Serbia, and may still have some residual preference for the UK to remain united, but such reservations are rapidly vanishing. The EU might well prefer to have a friendly resource-rich independent Scotland as a member rather than have a continuing “unified” UK entirely outside.

            Thirdly, in a well-ordered democracy like Scotland, any attempt to refute a referendum win on the basis of a transparently-confected post-hoc excuse would create a political storm that would finish-off any credibility of London rule. The game would be well-and-truly up, and London and the whole wide world (including the EU) would know it. Within the EU there is much greater understanding and a consequent undercurrent of sympathy for Scotland now that was largely absent (alas) in 2014. A win for indy would “seal the deal”, and that is clearly what the EU is asking.

            There comes a point when to try to stem the tide becomes so manifestly self-defeating that it ceases to be tenable. There is hardly any immediate political downside in such circumstances for London to just “let go”. Much sour grapes might be in evidence, but that’s about it. The Scottish Unionist proxies would be utterly stranded and demoralised. (As their tangible great relief back in 2014 revealed.)

            No, facile comparisons with Serbia+Montenegro are frankly unhelpful. (That is not to say that England would not play hardball in the subsequent independence negotiations, but that is another story…)

          • I am not making a comparison between Montenegro and Scotland and neither does the author of the paper. It is simply a statement of fact that a 55% majority was required in Montenegro, which I thought was interesting.

            Since the end of first world war it is only Montenegro that has become Independent without more than 50% of the votes of the entire electorate. Most referendums are won by an overwhelming majority in favour of Independence as they occurred in former colonial countries such as the Baltic states.

            The paper discusses all the most recent cases where countries have become Independent by voting in a referendum, dozens of examples, it doesn’t focus on Montenegro which is but one example. There’s plenty to choose from when you look at the break up of the Soviet Union as well as Yugoslavia.

            I posted the link as I thought some might like to read it, I believe that international comparisons can be useful, especially if it turns out that to get a referendum we may have to go down the legal route using International Law. The author of the paper is a Professor of International Law so I thought it was worth reading his opinion.

          • Fair enough, but why then single out Montenegro? It is indeed “interesting”, but there were “reasons”. Special factors which absolutely don’t apply to us, and if the UKGov were tempted to try to deploy a goalpost-moving wheeze like that here in the face of established precedent – not totally beyond them, true – it would risk a political backfire. Like all other such attempts at “fixing” the result. All ultimately counter-productive virtual admissions of an expected lose.

            Undoubtedly the majorities for indy among the resurrected Baltic States, for example, or Norway back at the beginning of the 20th C, are truly inspiring, and implicitly rather a condemnation of our own public indifference/somnolence/ignorance, etc., etc. Frustrating, but that’s where we are.

            But I could easily live going into an indy campaign with 54% support to win. I reckon it would rise during an actual campaign, and rise even further post-indy, where the vast majority would soon not look back at all.

          • I don’t think they would ever try and implement say a 55% requirement, I can though see them trying to implement something that has been done elsewhere and that is a minimum of 50% of the entire electorate which is even harder to achieve.

            Of course we wouldn’t accept such an undemocratic restriction and the Venice Commission “Code on Good Practice at Referendums” expressly recommends against both of these practices. Doesn’t mean they might not try though. This is also discussed in the paper, and that is another reason that makes it interesting 🙂

  19. You don’t need polls when you see the reaction of unionist thugs and their politicians to how Scots are seeing their government performing in a crisis.
    Their worst nightmare come true,Scots starting to think that they can do better not together with Westminster.

  20. Whenever there’s a *surge* in support for Independence people keep expecting the media to respond in the way they hope they should by just reporting it for what it is, news, and they wonder why the media don’t always operate in a way that they believe they should, but folk should remember that the media don’t build anything, they don’t make anything, they don’t produce goods of any kind that are required to generate or stimulate an economy, you can’t eat it, so not a living soul on planet earth actually needs what the media sells, so what can the media do to sustain its own survival as a product

    Well the media must create a market for their product and given that we know nobody needs their product, what do they do, they invent and create news to stimulate the sales of their own invention by making the public angry or excited or afraid or any emotion they can in order to sell you the public nothing, if they don’t they go bust and we’ve seen that in plummeting newspaper sales over the last few years as folk have wised up to the shenanigans of news media and the *journalists*, we used to have reporters, now they all call themselves journalists, I guess they think it sounds more important

    Folk shouldn’t expect integrity or principles from journalists who work for companies dependent on selling news as a product, you don’t expect a bookie to tell you which horse is actually going to win or the Lottery to inform you of which are the winning numbers to bet on

    Musicians play for money they don’t care what the tune is if the public want to buy it, integrity is for yourself in your house but a product is a product

    The journalists job is to make the public believe the information they’re selling is the best information so please part with your money and buy it, but like cheap Chinese toys off the internet it usually falls apart immediately after you’ve bought it and leaves you with the certain knowledge that you should never have bought it in the first place, and what’s really annoying is …….you already knew that…..Damn!!

  21. Support for SNP/Independence increasing. 2% a year as predicted. The elderly keel over and the young come on board. It will soon be 60% in two+ years. A Holyrood SNP landslide victory predicted. In a system designed to limit support. Vote out all the unionists. There will be no one to object.

    Scotland and the rest of the UK will be better off. Westminster power rescinded. The poor, bad decisions have cost Scotland dear. Scottish revenues and resources illegally and secretly taken. Cost Scotland £20Billion a year on average.

    The non Dom tax evader, criminal Press rejected. People get their information from the internet. BBC viewing figures going down and down. A £5Billion budget. Under Westminster control. A Westminster propaganda machine.

    The Westminster unionist shambles. They could not make a bigger mess. It is just appalling. The Brexit shambles yet to come. They will be voted out.

    Some people brought up in bigotry and ignorance. There are less and less. Young people are being brought up in better circumstances. They are better educated and tolerant. Masonic membership falling. The Churches are losing members. They have privileges above the Law. Equal opportunities and employment Laws.

    The UK one of the most unequal places in the world. Illegal wars, financial fraud and tax evasion. Iraq, Lockerbie and Dunblane kept secret for 100 years.

  22. The EU helped the former USSR states to Independence and the reunification of Germany. They gave loans and support and continue doing so to smaller poorer nations. Including supporting refugees fleeing conflict. The EU founded, after WW2 to stop war and starvation in Europe.

    The migration crisis in Europe caused by the UK/US illegal wars. The migration crisis in Europe used to get support for Brexit. The result of the illegal wars. Yet people were taken in by the Tory lies. Farague now in the US. Cut off his nose to spite his face.

    One of the reasons Scotland got Devolution (limited powers). The EU supported it. Blair had to concede or be subject to EU sanctions, The eastern bloc countries were achieving greater democracy than Scotland. The EU/UN International Laws which support the right to self determination and self governance when people vote for it.

  23. Next time a poll is commissioned please include a question aimed at over75s asking whether or not they intend to stump up for a TV Licence.

    Ask the question of Scots and also of English.

    The answers could prove v. interesting.

    I don’t think Boris And His lying Circus would be keen to see thousands of over75s carted off to the local Bastille..

    • On that very question gus1940, I spoke to a Labour voting neighbour woman who says she’ll now vote for Independence because of the TV licence

      Makes you think, is that some folks entire criteria for voting for Independence, nothing to do with having a free country, just the price of a TV licence

      The world is definitely a fickle place if that’s all it takes to change hearts and minds, also an interesting insight into the minds of what I’m ashamed to say is my own age group

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