Dugcast fae the dughoose – with Yes Cymru

In this week’s dugcast fae the dughoose I am joined by Siôn Jobbins the Chair of Yes Cymru. We chat about the origins of Yes Cymru, the independence movement in Wales and the similarities and differences between the Scottish and Welsh campaigns.

Dugcast fae the Dughoose with Sion Jobbins of Yes Cymru

If the embedded link does not work for you, you can access the podcast directly by clicking on this link https://soundcloud.com/user-291670852/dugcast-20-08-2020-with-sion-jobbins-of-yes-cymru

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58 thoughts on “Dugcast fae the dughoose – with Yes Cymru

  1. Pingback: Dugcast fae the dughoose – with Yes Cymru | speymouth

    • With labour running things in Wales, very badly , as usual, same as in Scotland back in the day, cannot believe that the independence vote isn’t bigger.
      Come on Wales wake up.

  2. i think Sion raises a good point, when scotland offskis, everything will change for the remaining home nations.

    my mum is from Blaenau Ffestiniog so I’m very pleased that what is happening in Scotland is helping Wales too

    Cymru am byth

  3. Serious question wgd..how confident are you that the snp will in fact bring a referendum after a win in 2021.there seems to be no movement on anything that needs to be put in place to actually start the process for a referendum.the snp know they have the numbers and the support to win but seem reluctant to even mention referendum/independence.

    • I am very confident. The SNP knows that if it doesn’t bring about a referendum following a majority win in the next Scottish elections and when there’s majority support for indy in the polls that it will destroy itself as a party.

      • This is my expectation, too.

        Politics is as much about appearances as substance. Nicola Sturgeon is appearing to be very substantive indeed to wary voters, the ones we’ll need for a Yes majority.

        It’s nippy from our perspective as Indy die hards, but we are in the bag. Sure, we’d like her to speak about how significant Indy is and to be more aggressive in seizing it. But we are not the only people who count. No, we are the movement. What Scottish independence needs is the majority.

        It may well be that she’s doing exactly the right thing by acting as if she’s already the leader of an independent nation (as best as Holyrood’s powers will let her) and proving to people who doubted her and us before that we can really do this better. She’s showing what we can do, when we do it ourselves. So that, in time, we truly can.

        • Excellent comments, John, with which I fully agree and with Paul’s response also. Without Nicola Sturgeon’s leadership of the SNP, I do not think the membership of the Party would be so high and she has led by example, to win many doubters to our cause.
          And, as Nicola herself has often stated, the restoration of Scotland’s Independence will come when the people of Scotland decide that’s what they want, so … in the end … it’s up to us. Been working for this for over 60 years now and I, and other long-timers, know how far we have travelled on this road.

          • Thanks!

            I can only imagine what 60 years in the movement, and 60 years of progress must feel like. In just my own time, I’ve felt the sea changing here for sure. Time was the SNP were rank outsiders here in Edinburgh, and I had to wonder if my vote was even worth it. How far things have come!

            I certainly hope you get the reward you’ve sought for so long. We need it, and Scotland needs it, for us to find ourselves.

          • Thanks, John, My journey started in 1951, when I was seven years old. My activism started in my very early teens, albeit only by talking to anyone and everyone about the necessity for Scotland to regain its Independence. No one in my family, at that time was interested in the subject, indeed, my Mother used to say to me “I don’t know where you came from, with these strange ideas.” and she would warn me about talking about the subject, in case I got into trouble! When I finally reached the age to vote, I had no SNP candidate to vote for, as they were few and far between, so I spoiled my voting slip by writing “Saor Alba gu Brath” thereon. As I was an Enumerator at the counts in the Kelvin Hall at the time, I can tell you there were a few spoiled papers with similar comments. I can honestly say, I have never voted for a Unionist candidate in my whole life, choosing rather to spoil my paper.

            Yes, I can look back and clearly see where activists like me have come from … collecting jumble around the doors and holding jumble sales to raise money for the SNP; collecting what seemed like tons of books for second-hand book stalls; making tablet, treacle toffee and all sorts of fudge night after night and selling same to my fellow workers, or at fundraisers etc. I must literally have made hundreds and hundreds of pounds of the stuff and raised similar amounts over the years, to help keep the SNP fighting on. Things have progressed since then and people have become less and less afraid to declare themselves. Many of the foot-soldiers went on to become dedicated MPs, but we stand on the shoulders of so many giants, sadly departed from the movement before realising their dream – that is our dream.

            We in the Independence movement have come a long, long way on our journey … we now have an SNP Government, of which I am very proud, although I have to confess, I thought it was a big mistake back in the late Seventies, when we were diverted from the goal of Independence, to start selling the message of Devolution instead. I felt then that it was a poisoned chalice and perhaps only time will tell if it was a wise decision by the hierarchy. However, we are where we are … it’s certainly not getting any easier … but we are so close now! I am excited, but also worried, as we all are, because of the unscrupulous, dishonourable bunch of un-democratic charlatans running the English Government. I’ve seen many, many dirty tricks played on us over the years, but if we all stand together and remain united in our resolve and never to again fall for the usual Unionist trap of “Divide and Conquer”, to keep our eyes firmly on the prize, I feel certain that we will together come to the end of the first part of our great journey … Independence! … and that together we will embark on the new phase … to make our beloved Scotland the kind of country we’ve all aspired to see it become, where poverty will be a thing of the past, where our citizens … wherever they come from … will feel safe and fairly represented, and where our young people will grow up with confidence … knowing our history, understanding the present and with vision to plan for the future.

            I sincerely hope that I am allowed to live long enough to enjoy the great day, when it comes … as come it definitely will.

          • Margaret what an absolutely brilliant post that was, it genuinely warmed my heart to read of your travels in your support for Independence. I know there are people just like you all over Scotland but they will be few and far between.

            I myself am a latecomer but a very enthusiastic one in support of Independence 🙂

            There is hope and the polls show that given a referendum tomorrow we would reach our goal, let’s remain positive and persuade our family, friends and neighbours who are not yet convinced. That’s out job now and will guarentee when the vote comes it will be YES!

          • Margaret thanks for sharing your story on here and as you say, ”if we all stand together and remain united in our resolve and never to again fall for the usual Unionist trap of “Divide and Conquer”, to keep our eyes firmly on the prize, I feel certain that we will together come to the end of the first part of our great journey … Independence! …

            Yes we will Margaret. We will become an independent country in the very near future, after over 300 years of being subjugated, in no small measure thanks to people like you who supported our cause when many people thought that it was just a ”strange idea.” Now it would seem that for many Scots it’s a ”strange idea” wanting to be part of this dysfunctional union. Great to hear from you and please continue to post on here.

          • Thank you, Petra. I’m a bit of a digital dinosaur, so have always spread my message of independence through face-to-face contact with people I meet. Just gentle persuasion and encouragement to think about the idea. Helped make a few converts over the years. Your comments are very encouraging to me.

    • “there seems to be no movement on anything that needs to be put in place to actually start the process for a referendum”

      Well, the Scottish Government have passed the Referendums (Scotland) Bill and put it into Scottish Law at the start of this year. This was in preparation for an intended referendum before the end of this year but that has now been shelved because of Covid-19

      “The Referendums (Scotland) Bill passed by a vote of 68 for, 54 against and 2 abstentions. The Bill became an Act on 29 January 2020.”


      They have also instructed the Electoral Commission to retest the original question “Should Scotland be an Independent Country”, the reason for doing this was that any research would take time and the Unionists want the question to be changed to a Remain/Leave answer rather than Yes/No. They also wanted to hold up any progress towards a second referendum,


      This was done back in February and the EC was supposed to provide a report within 3 months but I can find no evidence that any report has so far been published. On their website, it says that the next review on the referendum question as 12th August 2020 but it doesn’t seem to have actually been updated since 13th August 2019.


      They haven’t been sitting on their hands but instead putting in place the necessary legislation for holding another referendum. It might not be being printed in bold headlines on the UK rags nor talked about on the BBC or STV but work is quietly going on.

      In addition to that, Richard Leonard today is complaining that “Scots want to hear more on the economy and less about independence”

      Just a few days ago Nicola Sturgeon was quoted in the Times and many other rags talking about Independence.

      “The first minister said the SNP manifesto would include a commitment to a second independence referendum and insisted it will be “utterly untenable and unsustainable” for Tories in Westminster to reject one if the SNP wins.”


      • Hi Alex – WordPress has an anti-spam feature which means that any comment which contains more than two URLs is automatically held back for moderation. If you want your comments to appear immediately, please try to restrict yourself to two links per comment.

      • A wee “by the way” to my earlier post. The Referendums (Scotland) Bill, which is now part of Scots Law, also includes the franchise as to who will be eligible to vote in any future referendum and it is exactly the same as the 2014 referendum.

        Westminster cannot change Scots Law so the best they can hope for is to include in a section 30 order any restrictions to the franchise they hope to achieve. I can envisage a scenario where Westminster will try and pull a fast one with “Yes, you can have your Section 30 order but here are the conditions”…

        It won’t wash and the Scottish Government must resist this attempt at interfering in our referendum without any compromise. It must be Our referendum with the rules as they stand now having been made in the Scottish parliament.

  4. An interesting take. Siôn certainly comes across as very thoughtful and well grounded.
    One small observation (and I know this podcast was probably recorded Thursday), judging from the front page of the Daily Mail this morning (Scottish and English editions) it don’t look like we’ll be leaving Wales in the “hands of Boris Johnson”.
    Quite a hatchet job. Johnson characterised as a lazy, incompetent, buffoon. Together with a photy of him looking like a fatter version of Benny fae Crossroads.
    The new editorial line from the DM is “Johnson must go!”. The 55% Yes poll will have played into this volt face to some extent.
    Can Prime Minister Sunak save the union? Perhaps a better shot than Johnson, but still, nae chance.

    • The ‘men in grey suits’ sharpening their daggers so soon after an election victory?

      Well…well… well (who’d a thunk it!).

  5. Johnson served his purpose which was Brexit.
    He will be discarded for a shiny new champion of the Union.
    After that it will be a champion for the USA servitude.
    The puppet masters have a long list to get through in order to build their Right Wing Eutopia.

    • Dead right Julia Boris Johnson was just the salesman hired for the Brexit job, as soon as that’s done he’s a goner, he’d be a goner now if it wasn’t for Covid and the bad light it would shine on the Tories for removing him too quickly, it wouldn’t surprise me at all if Michael Gove was already packing his furniture into storage preparing for his next stabby in the back role of Johnson

      As for saving the Union I believe they believe they don’t have a snowball’s except for one, wait to see how the Scottish elections turn out and if the SNP do as well as predicted then remove Johnson as a Brexit hero citing ongoing illness from Covid with a General Election so that they might give themselves a chance of kicking the whole UK constitutional mess down the road some more, y’know the *now is not the time strategy* because because because because because, because of the new Prime Minister and all wonderful things he does and that’s another reason why about a dozen SNP MPs want to return to Scotland to stand for Holyrood, they know what’s coming

      That’s my guess anyway

      • Or those SNP MPs could just be telling the truth and have had enough of being powerless and superfluous down there. When there’s a majority government, Scottish MPs just don’t matter.

        I bet the next general election is a full 5 years after the last. Why? The economy is going to hell, and that’s never a fun time to face the public. The tories may well have another 1992-1997 experience staring at them down the pike.

      • Can’t argue with that synopsis but for one tiny point, we’ve been here before and I honestly don’t believe Scots are prepared to swallow this one more time for any reason.

        • I think you’re right on that Bob, Scotland isn’t going to swallow it and the FM won’t swallow it either, she’ll know the impetus for Independence is enough this time and I can’t think of any reason why it won’t be on

          Doesn’t mean the UK guv won’t try this or some other ploy though, from their point of view they have to try something or Northern Ireland will be next in the queue and Wales will get noisier

          If we’re luck enough to get a vaccine for this Covid thing before all this kicks off then Scotland’s won a watch

    • Julia.

      Johnson will just be recycled back into the neoliberal ether, and find a comfy well paid position like those before him, David Cameron, George Osborne and Tony Blair spring to mind.

      But the UK isn’t alone in this disgraceful neocon buddy placement, rewards for failure in this field are substantial as long as you obey the rules.

      Take Joe Biden for example his recent campaign speech extolling goodness fairness and democracy. If you’d just landed on Earth from outerspace you’d think Biden was a great choice as the next POTUS, you’d be wrong though.

      Biden was the sidekick of Obama, the POTUS longest at war, his entire two terms to be precise. Then there was Biden’s part in the coup in Ukraine where he virtually became viceroy in the country while his son Hunter, landed a cushy job in Ukraine’s largest gas producer, Biden and his son went on to install trusted US neocons onto the board, a classic maneuver.

  6. Michael Gove has reportedly selected his new better together team same as the old better together team and they’ve even had a meeting, y’know the special kind

    • First of all they need to make sure there’s a no deal with the EU, of which Liam Fox (remember him?) Said ” The EU deal would be the easiest deal in human history. Boris Johnson later said on the EU deal that an “Oven ready deal was there to use.

      Today we find out neither sound bite is correct with a no deal the more likely option.

    • I wonder if Gove has been on the blower to Nick Clegg about the pro-Indy sites? With Clegg hired as a lobbyist and public relations officer in his role as Vice-President, Global Affairs and Communications at Facebook.

      ”Michael Gove has held private talks with senior figures from across the political spectrum in an attempt to find a way to save the Union in the face of rising support for independence.

      Discussions have taken place with a wide range of notable names including Lord McConnell of Glenscorrodale, the former Scottish Labour first minister, and Danny Alexander, the former Liberal Democrat chief secretary to the Treasury. George Galloway, the socialist firebrand who is planning to run for Holyrood, has also been sounded out. It is understood that Mr Gove has contacted a range of unionist politicians over the past six months after being given greater control over Westminster’s strategy for keeping the UK together.”..


  7. Great podcast, Paul. So enjoyed listening to Sion and seeing the view from the Welsh perspective. Much sense spoken. Great that we have reciprocal support now between our two ancient nations. It was there back in the Seventies with Plaid, but without the strength and warmth exhibited now. I personally wish YesCymru continuing success in all its endeavours.
    Thanks again, Paul, for all you are doing as an invaluable Enabler to our cause.

  8. Thanks for this and to my first namesake for presenting ‘our’ cause so eloquently. (At least, you shouldn’t have too much trouble saying *my* name now, nor assuming, as some do, that I’m a female.)

  9. Enjoyed this podcast. Luckily both Nations have a wall nearby incase things get a bit desperate. (Offa and Hadrian). Improve job prospects in the building industry too.

    • I have always enjoyed his commentary. Did they give a reason, or are they just being vindictive?

      We need to know this now because it looks like censorship to me, and that is rarely acceptable and certainly not in this case, as I understand it.

    • You don’t know the half of it, British psyops officer Gordon MacMillan, of the Denison barracks 77th brigade, which is headed up by Daniel Reeve, is the head of Twitter for Africa and the ME.

      Now just imagine who heads the UK’s Facebook and Twitter, and what their agenda is. Its certainly not one of encouraging Scottish independence that’s for sure.


  10. Hmm…

    This is a prospect of a fairly large group of like minded people. Not getting too political, I’d hope that we’d all stand up for each other. Perhaps we could be part of the Scandanavian alliance?

  11. I was very impressed by Sion. Without doubt this was one of the best Dugcasts I have listened to. I was interested in his view that some people who voted No in 2014 wouldn’t vote at the next referendum. I can see where he is coming from. The British state has screwed things up so badly that some won’t vote for it as such. We are definitely on our way.

  12. WGD please stop being so upbeat! Other blogs want us all to be depressed.

    Still nice to see Wales moving forward as well. The fact the Welsh people value their senate / parliament when once they decried it shows that progress is possible.

  13. Johnson running away again.

    “Bodyguards raised concerns over their safety, so the family cut their Scotland holiday short after just three days. The PM had taken his fiancée Carrie Symonds and their baby Wilfred for a few days away”

    “The tent could be spotted by a sniper from too far away for them to stay after the location was published.” 😯


    • Forget about the snipers. The midges would have seen him off plus nae shops and the fact that the Scots detest the man. Happy type of holiday not.

  14. A few thoughts in a general sort of way:

    (First off, you were difficult to hear, Paul; and when was the last time anyone accused you of being too quiet? :-))

    Whilst the increase in support for independence down here is, of course, greatly to be welcomed, I still have my doubts about the solidity of that support. I suspect that a great many – including that 40% or so of Labour voters from December 2019 who say they now support independence – still have in the back of their mind the thought, “Everythin’ll be olright when we ‘ave a Labour gov’munt back in Westminster, aye!”, and that – if such an event should come to pass – their support for independence will melt away, even if – as seems highly likely given its current direction – such a government will be as much LINO (‘Labour In Name Only’) as the Blair régime was.

    Secondly, because our membership of the Mere Shite Of The Union (as Johnson nearly – correclty – called it) isn’t based on a union at all, but on conquest, occupation and colonisation, the tentacles of the Empire have spread deeper and more debilitatingly into our nation and our national psyche. We are closer to England than you are (yes, we both have a land border with it, but you know what I mean here), and (through not having for a very long time the sort of independent national institutions which you have) have been far more assimilated into England than you have. That assimilation is preceding apace even today, with not only the imperial rulers but their little helpers in our alleged parliament keen to carve bits off our country to integrate them with contiguous areas of England; Cardiff and Newport into a Greater Bristol and the north-east (where I am) seeing determined steps to turn us de jure into the mere sub-region of Merseyside and Cheshire, which we have become de facto already.

    Following on from that, we have to talk about unchecked immigration from England. This is destroying our identity not merely in linguistic terms but in general cultural and social terms as well. Although some of the English people who move to our country do make attempts to assimilate (or at least not to try to change the nature of the places they move to), the vast majority come here with a sense of entitlement to take over and turn things the way they want, irrespective of the views or feelings of the people who have been there since time was. Add that to the parlous state of an economy which our rulers (at least as much in Caerdydd as in London) believe should rely entirely on low-grade tourism, and the concomitant lower property prices here compared to most of England, then you can see that we are being, as it were, Englished out of our own country. This is also reflected not just in demographics but in electoral effects as well; have you seen how many Tory MPs we have? And where they are? Did ‘we’ not vote for Br*x*t every bit as enthusiastically as the English did? The skewing of the political map in Cymru is in no small measure due to uncontrolled immigration from western, central and north-western England into our communities, especially in our rural areas where – numbers being numbers – they have a disproportionate effect.

    (If anyone thinks it ‘racist’ to talk about this, or to speak disobligingly of our dear neighbours even if what is said is demonstrably true, then what word could you use to describe the attempts – continuing to this day, as I have said – to destroy our nationhood on the part of the English state? We aren’t different ‘races’ at all, for one thing).

    With specific reference to YesCymru, Siôn Jobbins claims that that movement is non-party-political. I’d like to believe that that is the case – after all, to achieve independence we have to appeal to the widest possible spectrum of our society – but there is a preponderence of influence of the self-styled ‘Party of Wales’ amongst its leadership, which pushes that party’s own view of what support for independence is and isn’t ‘acceptable’ to the movement. This has led to attempts to marginalise – and sometimes even silence – those supporters of independence (of whom there are many) who are fervently for our national liberation, but who do not support the ‘wokeist’ tendencies of Plaid, its fervent pro-EU position, its willingness to prop up minority Labour rule and its unwillingness – even now, despite what Siôn says – to put independence clearly front-and-centre of its message. The two new pro-indy parties which have been set up lately – Gwlad and the WNP – have many alternative ideas to offer and they should be given their proper part in any ‘formal’ independence movement, especially as they will help broaden the appeal of the movement as a whole.

    I have been a nationalist/sovereigntist/independentista/what-ave-yew since I was 15 (I’m now 58), and long for my nation to be free of the colonial state and the colonial mindset. There’s a very long way to go, however, and I’m not sure I’ll be around long enough to see it

    (Sorry for the length)

  15. … I’ll just say. one of the best Blogcasts ever … listening to Sion and the political pulse in Wales made my day …. YES CYMRU / WALES

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